The BMW i7 & AMG EQS driven until they die [Carwow]

[Hansn]

After 1 year of owning an EV i would never go back to ICE. The roadtrip argument is somewhat valid, but overall time spent charging is way less than the ICE refuling as charging is done at home.

I had an ICE loaner for two weeks not long ago, and i spent more on fuel during those two weeks than what i normally pay for electricity at home to run 200sqm and two EVs...

Fast charging is a none to two times a month thing for 5-20 minutes at 20cents/kwh.

Driving an EV saves me hundreds of € a month, and the inconvinience is pretty much non existent. I could for sure rent an ICE 7 series for 3 weeks a year and still save money. I can go on a 2 hour "joyride" in the evening for 3€ homecharging rather than 45€ in fuel..

In 10 years Norway has built enough charging infrastructure to the point that you can pretty much charge at any gas station, and from several companies at the same location. There is no Tesla supercharger argument here anymore, and on top even the tesla chargers are open for everyone..

[JustChris]

+1 for the EV experience here too. I’ve had many an M car and 15+ BMWs (currently a Z4M40i too).

No issues with range anxiety as yet with the Model Y and it a a superb and serene cruiser. There’s a lot of opinion in this thread about EV from non owners and potentially some who’ve never even driven one!

I think we all agree on a couple of points.

- If it’s your only car, an EV could be a challenge on longer trips (although most owners are evangelists for that too!)
- Personally just now I wouldn’t consider it not being a Tesla. Their SC network has something like 3 9s reliability and just works when you plug in. All else in the U.K. is growing but very very poor. I could not imagine making a long U.K. trip without the Tesla SC option, no chance
- Saying all this about road trips and SC network in a month of ownership I just charge at home. There’s nothing cheaper (full for less than £5) or more convenient. Holidays and longer work trips will just require a little more planing

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by TXSchnee

My point is that both the i7 and EQS start over $100,000 which means someone who is buying one of these should have the means to have another vehicle or be able to rent one if they are worried about road trips.

You keep making this point, but many of us don't buy the concept you're selling. I'm an older guy. Worked my a$$ off to be able to afford a +$100k car, and you're telling me, "no prob, just buy a second one!"

Imagine if you're a real estate agent trying to sell a 3-bedroom, $3m home to someone who needs four bedrooms. Would you say, "no problem, you can afford a $3m home, so just buy a one-bedroom condo down the street to make due?"

For someone like me (and I suspect others), if I'm spending over $100k on an automobile, it better meet my needs.

[hinckley]

Hansn, you're making the same point that some of the dissenters (like me) are. It's not range or range anxiety anymore. The issue is increasingly about re-charging. And Norway is the 'exception that proves the rule'. Literally no other country has done what Norway has done to create a recharging infrastructure to support EVs. Without it, the Norwegian EV market would not be nearly as large as it is. Not close. And for a country as large and as diverse as the US, it'll take us at least another 25 years to get where Norway is today.

[wesleyan92]

Why do I suddenly love the new 7 series?

What is this witchcraft BMW is putting on me?

[adc]

Originally Posted by hinckley

2050 is a more realistic time frame, at least for the US. And by then, we'll have hopefully worked our way through the terrible environmental impact of mining battery rare-earth minerals.

To be fair, in over 120 years of use, we have not yet mitigated the terrible environmental impact of mining and using oil. And the consequences will stay with our children and their children for many years to come.

I don’t currently own an EV, but our next family car will be an EV guaranteed. Even if it means just a small inconvenience every now and then.

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by hinckley

You keep making this point, but many of us don't buy the concept you're selling. I'm an older guy. Worked my a$$ off to be able to afford a +$100k car, and you're telling me, "no prob, just buy a second one!"

Imagine if you're a real estate agent trying to sell a 3-bedroom, $3m home to someone who needs four bedrooms. Would you say, "no problem, you can afford a $3m home, so just buy a one-bedroom condo down the street to make due?"

For someone like me (and I suspect others), if I'm spending over $100k on an automobile, it better meet my needs.

I suppose renting a vehicle is impossible for someone who can afford a 7 Series, obviously reading my entire comment isn’t a thing people responding have done. Plenty of people have taken long trips and posted about them on this forum, go to the iX page, look at the i4, road trips anxiety is coming from people who don’t own a BEV. My current BEV has 800V architecture, and can add over 100 miles in about 15 minutes, trips are not a big deal.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by TXSchnee

I suppose renting a vehicle is impossible for someone who can afford a 7 Series, obviously reading my entire comment isn’t a thing people responding have done. Plenty of people have taken long trips and posted about them on this forum, go to the iX page, look at the i4, road trips anxiety is coming from people who don’t own a BEV. My current BEV has 800V architecture, and can add over 100 miles in about 15 minutes, trips are not a big deal.

I, for one, have read your entire comments. That's my thing. We just have a difference of opinion. Reading your posts and disagreeing with them are not mutually exclusive.

[marksandygill]

Range is almost meaningless, my M240i gets a similar range to these cars! What's important and what is lacking is the infrastructure to charge a large amount of cars quickly.
Range anxiety isn't really range anxiety, it's, will I find a working charger that isn't occupied when I need one anxiety!😄
All chargers should be connected and an app should show you availability, heck maybe you could book a time slot...

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by TXSchnee

I suppose renting a vehicle is impossible for someone who can afford a 7 Series, obviously reading my entire comment isn’t a thing people responding have done. Plenty of people have taken long trips and posted about them on this forum, go to the iX page, look at the i4, road trips anxiety is coming from people who don’t own a BEV. My current BEV has 800V architecture, and can add over 100 miles in about 15 minutes, trips are not a big deal.

You aren’t really listening. There’s a larger scope argument people are presenting that you completely elide over. You keep going back to $100k EV’s and people with money to have multiple vehicles when many of us are talking about the issue with EV’s as a whole, the infrastructure, the unrealistic notion that we can all have EV’s, etc. I even think hinckley was being generous with his 2050 prediction. I doubt we’ll have the infrastructure or the demand even then. I agree with him overall though.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by marksandygill

Range is almost meaningless, my M240i gets a similar range to these cars! What's important and what is lacking is the infrastructure to charge a large amount of cars quickly.
Range anxiety isn't really range anxiety, it's, will I find a working charger that isn't occupied when I need one anxiety!😄
All chargers should be connected and an app should show you availability, heck maybe you could book a time slot...

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

You aren’t really listening. There’s a larger scope argument people are presenting that you completely elide over. You keep going back to $100k EV’s and people with money to have multiple vehicles when many of us are talking about the issue with EV’s as a whole, the infrastructure, the unrealistic notion that we can all have EV’s, etc. I even think hinckley was being generous with his 2050 prediction. I doubt we’ll have the infrastructure or the demand even then. I agree with him overall though.

If you don’t think there will be mass adoption of EVs a whopping 27 years from now, then you must not be familiar with the pace of change in the modern tech environment. By then, every car being purchased to date will be long out of service.
Again, the infrastructure issues are negligible. Does the infra need to be resilient? Absolutely. But that is coming, and there is a little company (hint: it’s Tesla) that is paving the way for what a model of reliable (uptime) and quality (charging speed) service looks like.
Again, fast charging is not something that most will do often. For the niche drivers who need extended range, the infrastructure reliability/quality will obviously be more important.
To the range piece, it is actually not that important. What is far more important is charging time. With 200 miles of range, you can drive continuously for 2.5 hours nonstop. If a high volt architecture let’s you charge in 5 minutes, no one will care about range. Furthermore, it’s funny to hear a group of enthusiasts complain about wanting more range when more range inherently = more weight and diminished driving performance.

[SW17LS]

This is my problem, and would keep me in the 760 vs the i7. For daily use, it would be phenomenal. BUT, I just got back from a 350 mile each way trip to WV where I was in the country when I got there at a family members home who has no level 1 charging. I just don't want to worry about stopping during the trip. I can get there on 2/3 of a tank of fuel and never have to stop unless I want to, I stop to pee...I might go through a drive through but I don't stop for more than 5 minutes.

So I would have to stop once for 30 minutes on the way there. Find some way to charge it there, or I would have to stop twice on the way home for 30 min each time, and finding good chargers in southern VA/WV isn't a given.

So I am left with can I really spend $130,000 on an around town car and trade with my wife and drive her Pacifica on that trip I take 3-4 times a year? I sure don't want to do that, I want to drive my amazing car.

So, no EV for me yet simply because of that.

[ralsagoff]

Originally Posted by jmack123

You must not be an EV driver I take it? The VAST majority of charging (as you alluded to) will not occur at fast chargers - it will occur overnight at home (literally 99% for most people).
As a result, fuel costs relative to ICE will be VASTLY reduced. The main factor limiting EV adoption is not range or charging times, it’s the purchase price.
In reality, with 200 miles of range, you can drive for three hours straight non-stop. At that point, you will likely want/need a 30 min bio and food break anyway. It’s not going to be a huge deal for most people considering this situation factors into 1% of use cases.
This is why your analogy of a 5 min gas fuel up doesn’t apply here - most people will have the re-fueling station at home which will refuel their car 99% of the time while they sleep.

You absolutely right! I have a 2013 Tesla Model S that I bought 09/13 and I’m still driving it and it has been flawless except for the usual service needs of new tires, 12v battery, air filter and windshield wiper replacements. Still driving on original brakes because of regenerative braking! I have charged at home almost all the time. Have had solar panels for twenty years. We were amongst the earliest to install solar roof panels. So charging at home made sense in terms of energy costs.

[brava09]

There is no way in hell that mass consumer will adopt a worse service than the current available one; when I can refuel my car every where in less than 5 minutes, you must be on crack thinking that majority of consumers will put up with 30+ minutes plus the hassle of finding a charger, plus having another car for long trips, jeez 🙄

And charging at night in Europe crowded cities where people live in apartment buildings, this does not exist.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by jmack123

If you don’t think there will be mass adoption of EVs a whopping 27 years from now, then you must not be familiar with the pace of change in the modern tech environment. By then, every car being purchased to date will be long out of service.
Again, the infrastructure issues are negligible. Does the infra need to be resilient? Absolutely. But that is coming, and there is a little company (hint: it’s Tesla) that is paving the way for what a model of reliable (uptime) and quality (charging speed) service looks like.
Again, fast charging is not something that most will do often. For the niche drivers who need extended range, the infrastructure reliability/quality will obviously be more important.
To the range piece, it is actually not that important. What is far more important is charging time. With 200 miles of range, you can drive continuously for 2.5 hours nonstop. If a high volt architecture let’s you charge in 5 minutes, no one will care about range. Furthermore, it’s funny to hear a group of enthusiasts complain about wanting more range when more range inherently = more weight and diminished driving performance.

I’ll take that bet ALL DAY LONG. You will be proven wrong.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I’ll take that bet ALL DAY LONG. You will be proven wrong.

Yea, with all due respect, you sound like the wasteland of naysayers who react emotionally to any tech disruption. I work in tech for a living. There is little doubt that ICE vehicles are a thing of the past now. Will they continue to persist in certain use-cases? Sure. But in the passenger vehicle space absolutely not.
Furthermore, you seem to be neglecting to realize that by 2050, it is highly likely most people will not drive the majority of the time as most driving will be done by AI. But again, this takes an understanding of technology and how it works (and therefore progresses) to derive an informed conclusion.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by jmack123

Yea, with all due respect, you sound like the wasteland of naysayers who react emotionally to any tech disruption. I work in tech for a living. There is little doubt that ICE vehicles are a thing of the past now. Will they continue to persist in certain use-cases? Sure. But in the passenger vehicle space absolutely not.
Furthermore, you seem to be neglecting to realize that by 2050, it is highly likely most people will not drive the majority of the time as most driving will be done by AI. But again, this takes an understanding of technology and how it works (and therefore progresses) to derive an informed conclusion.

It has nothing to do with “tech” and everything to do with culture, adaptation, acceptance, assimilation, etc. The demise of the ICE has been purported for about as long as climate change and the resulting “end of the world” predictions. Yes, that’s hyperbole, but you get my point. Keep believing the hype. When we revisit this conversation in 20 years, you’ll likely be gone but many will be saying “I told you so!”

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by hinckley

You keep making this point, but many of us don't buy the concept you're selling. I'm an older guy. Worked my a$$ off to be able to afford a +$100k car, and you're telling me, "no prob, just buy a second one!"

Imagine if you're a real estate agent trying to sell a 3-bedroom, $3m home to someone who needs four bedrooms. Would you say, "no problem, you can afford a $3m home, so just buy a one-bedroom condo down the street to make due?"

For someone like me (and I suspect others), if I'm spending over $100k on an automobile, it better meet my needs.

Just came here for the comments.

The comment you responded to is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard in the colloquy of ICE vs. EV on this forum.

“It’s not good enough to meet the needs of some (most?) people, so you should be financially comfortable enough to have something to supplement the half assed solution that currently exists.”

Some of you guys are unbelievable lol. Agree with you 100%, though it’s going to be a long time before I get into an EV at all. I’m not just EV bashing here. There are some good arguments for it. But the “you should by another car” argument is one of the least intelligent things I have ever heard.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

You aren’t really listening. There’s a larger scope argument people are presenting that you completely elide over. You keep going back to $100k EV’s and people with money to have multiple vehicles when many of us are talking about the issue with EV’s as a whole, the infrastructure, the unrealistic notion that we can all have EV’s, etc. I even think hinckley was being generous with his 2050 prediction. I doubt we’ll have the infrastructure or the demand even then. I agree with him overall though.

His argument is one of the least intelligent arguments I’ve ever heard.

You’re absolutely right, Sedan_Clan.

[AlteBMW]

Originally Posted by ResIpsaLoquitur

But the “you should by another car” argument is one of the least intelligent things I have ever heard.

The buy another car argument is also self-defeating. If you have to buy another car to allow you to do what you want to do with a car, doesn't that defeat the idea that electric cars have already "arrived"?

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Originally Posted by AlteBMW

The buy another car argument is also self-defeating. If you have to buy another car to allow you to do what you want to do with a car, doesn't that defeat the idea that electric cars have already "arrived"?

^ THIS!

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by jmack123

Again, the infrastructure issues are negligible.

Negligible?? Really? Achievable? Absolutely. And I have no doubt that infrastructure issues will be overcome. But there's a long road ahead of us and there will be solutions that we haven't even imagined yet.

Originally Posted by jmack123

Yea, with all due respect, you sound like the wasteland of naysayers who react emotionally to any tech disruption. I work in tech for a living. There is little doubt that ICE vehicles are a thing of the past now. Will they continue to persist in certain use-cases? Sure. But in the passenger vehicle space absolutely not.
Furthermore, you seem to be neglecting to realize that by 2050, it is highly likely most people will not drive the majority of the time as most driving will be done by AI. But again, this takes an understanding of technology and how it works (and therefore progresses) to derive an informed conclusion.

With all due respect, I (and many here, I'm sure) also work in tech. As a matter of fact, I've been in new tech for over 30 years, starting back in the days when we called it "the 128 corridor." So your easy dismissal of people who disagree with you shows a bit of, err . . . intellectual laziness?

I have no doubt that EVs are the future, but I've watched disruptive tech evolved for decades, and I know that it takes turns we can't even imagine today. There are over 2m cars in NYC, 5m in Mexico City, 7m in Rio. It's easy to ignore those inconvenient truths while sitting in suburban Boston or LA with a charger in your two-car garage.

This is a complicated problem. And complicated problems have complicated solutions. And you're starting from waaaay behind with blithe dismissals of those who challenge your perspective.

And for god's sake, please don't be one of those followers using "AI" to describe every next-gen algorithm. Again, it's more complicated than that.