i7 Charging Experience

[AlteBMW]

At some point there just has to be a single standard for charging so that electric "refueling" becomes like gas refueling and carrying adapters is unnecessary. Think about how crazy it would be if different cars had different filling necks and different gas stations had different filling neck sizes. It would be chaotic. But that's what electric is like now. We actually need a electric car czar (and not Musk) and some way to incentivize or even mandate uniformity.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by AlteBMW

At some point there just has to be a single standard for charging so that electric "refueling" becomes like gas refueling and carrying adapters is unnecessary. Think about how crazy it would be if different cars had different filling necks and different gas stations had different filling neck sizes. It would be chaotic. But that's what electric is like now. We actually need a electric car czar (and not Musk) and some way to incentivize or even mandate uniformity.

But we already do have different filling necks at stations. We have both Gas and Diesel at stations, so...

J1772 is the standard most of the world uses. Tesla broke that. But, unfortunately, we also still use inches, miles and pounds, right?

[AlteBMW]

Originally Posted by evanevery

But we already do have different filling necks at stations. We have both Gas and Diesel at stations, so...

Yes, of course you are right. The difference is the gas and diesel are at the same stations. The goal should be universal -- and rapid -- charging if we are going to wean people from ICE -- and then there is the issue of trucks who probably emit more than cars in toto.

BTW the car carrier ships that deliver electric BMWs are some of the worst offenders for emissions - but solving that is not going to be easy.

[NewQ]

Exactly. Yes, you can plan, that’s true. But holy crap, downloading all the random charging apps you can find, just in case? Doing a test run? Downloading even more apps to try and even find reliable chargers?

That’s a huge pain in the ass.

But with Tesla chargers reliable and plentiful enough, I would think that complexity could get cut down quite a bit.

[Theophilus]

I have a 2023 i7 in Southern California, and while we have a good number of charging stations, it is sometimes difficult finding an open charger when you need it. This is especially true of faster 350kw chargers. I see non-home charging as more of an “only if you absolutely need it” thing and try to plan ahead and charge at home.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by NewQ

Exactly. Yes, you can plan, that’s true. But holy crap, downloading all the random charging apps you can find, just in case? Doing a test run? Downloading even more apps to try and even find reliable chargers?

That’s a huge pain in the ass.

But with Tesla chargers reliable and plentiful enough, I would think that complexity could get cut down quite a bit.

Sounds like an EV is not for you. So its good you have an informed perspective BEFORE you buy an EV!

If your using your EV as a DD, and you can charge at home and NONE of this planning matters. You simply don't need to worry about the "infrastructure" at all. It was literally years after I bought my first EV before I'ld even SEEN a public charger.

But if you want to do long XC trips in your EV:

It absolutely doesn't matter one bit if you stop at Tesla chargers or other chargers. The density of chargers is not really the problem. Planning your EV trips will ALWAYS be to your benefit because of the charge times involved. It will always be to your benefit to plan EV trips as you will want to know what resources/features are at your stop (restaurants, etc). There are lots of chargers out in the middle of nowhere (Tesla included) with no bathrooms or food anywhere near them (ask me how I know). It really makes no difference if you stop at a Tesla charger without a bathroom, or an EA charger without a bathroom, if you need a bathroom. Your BMW Nav System doesn't care much about what stops it picks. It will happily choose one for you. So much for the "Ultimate Driving Machine"...

With an ICE, it doesn't really matter as you simply fill up your car in a few minutes and move on (and they all have bathrooms). Even if EVERY gas station had EV chargers, you would still want to choose your stops more carefully cause your likely gonna be there for at least 30-45 mins... Until we get a drastic change in battery technology, that's not gonna change...

So, if you have decided to do an XC trip with your EV then you best depart informed and well prepared. If you don't enjoy that, or are simply willing, then you are setting yourself up for a lot of standing around (at best). There is no shortage of journalists (reviewing EV's) who ended up on the side of the road exactly because they drove into a situation they had not planned or prepared for.

...and you don't need to "download all the random charging apps you can find". You don't need "ALL" of them and there is nothing "RANDOM" about it. Just find one that works for you. I use ABRP for planning and PlugShare to confirm my choices - it's that simple. The point here is:

The onboard NAV systems (both BMW and Porsche in my experience) are an academic exercise designed by engineers in lab coats. They will help you find a charger in a pinch. They will knit together a string of chargers to get you to your destination. But they are useless in in identifying and optimizing your travel plans to stop at chargers with features YOU want. (Did I mention that you can't save full "routes" in your Nav system? Only "favorites" and destinations? Thats just stupid...) Even if we had really good onboard NAV systems (which we don't), do you really want to be trying to do that on your dashboard at zero-dark-thirty before you get rolling? I'ld rather do my planning in advance, sitting at my PC with a beverage.

... and having a portable charging kit in your car is simply a smart thing to do in case you have a problem. You have a spare tire (or fill kit) in your car, right?

So, if you just want to go out and do an XC trip without any planning or prep then I would suggest you stick with an ICE. That will be your best option for a happy trip.

Planning and prep is everything for EV XC trips. If you don't enjoy that, or don't want to do it, then maybe an EV is NOT for you.

[NewQ]

Who on earth would enjoy that? At best they might tolerate it.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by NewQ

Who on earth would enjoy that? At best they might tolerate it.

I do!

As an instrument rated commercial pilot, I am quite comfortable planning long XC trips and being aware of what services may be available at each stop. As with EV's, you don't want to push range in an aircraft, always want to have options ahead of you (not behind), and need to keep in mind that you can encounter unanticipated challenges (weather) that might require a real-time adjustment in plans. With an aircraft, route planning starts many days in advance (watching weather patterns). With an EV you can do it the day before...

I always want to know (even in an ICE) where my route will take me - making route adjustments as needed to maximize my driving enjoyment (back roads vs interstate). ...and if I'm going to have to stop for a bit, I want to know what services/diversions are going to be nearby (restaurants, convenience stores, malls, etc).

I enjoy planning my trips. For me, optimizing my route is all part of the process (EV or ICE).

The "World's Largest Ball of Twine" is calling my name...

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by Theophilus

I have a 2023 i7 in Southern California, and while we have a good number of charging stations, it is sometimes difficult finding an open charger when you need it. This is especially true of faster 350kw chargers. I see non-home charging as more of an “only if you absolutely need it” thing and try to plan ahead and charge at home.

I agree with in-home charging. I would never own an EV if I couldn't charge at home.

However, 350KW chargers offer very little value to current BMW's. (Not much for others either...) I think you are over-valuing the benefit of 350KW charging stations. 150KW is likely more than you will ever need (in a current BMW). It's all about battery chemistry and Charge Rate vs SOC (State of Charge):

1. Your car has a maximum charge rate. For my iX, I believe its 192 KW. I think all BMW's share a similar limit. Your car simply will not accept anything higher than its limit.

2. ...and your EV (any EV) will NOT accept its max charge rate unless the battery is almost fully depleted.

3. ...and, during charging, as your SOC increases, your charge rate will decrease. So even if you start at a very low SOC, and initially see a relatively high rate, it will quickly taper off as your battery starts to fill up.

Generally:

- You should only expect to achieve your maximum charge rate if the battery SOC is very low (say 10% or less). (...and I wouldn't take my car that low on a road trip unless I had some very comfortable options in my back pocket...)

- You should expect a gradual charging rate decrease (fairly linear) between 10% and 85%.

- Once you pass through 85%, you should expect to see a much more dramatic decrease in charging rate as you approach 100%.

For my iXM60, I typically only ever see a little over 100KW for "midrange" charging regardless of the capacity of the charger (i.e. 350KW). (My Taycan would easily see over 200KW, but only if the SOC was VERY low). 150KW is good enough!

Sure, target the 350KW chargers. Why not? But stopping at a 350KW charger is not really going to save you any time - even if you arrive at a very low SOC and see a short term charging boost from a 350KW charger. You should only be expecting about 100-125KW in your BMW anyway (for the majority of your charging session).

* As a side note, I will always charge my car to 85% on road trips. Even if my software (ABRP, Nav, etc) tells me I don't need that much to make it to my next stop. The planners (ABRP) optimize on the low end of your battery since charging will be faster. I usually take my charge all the way to 85% regardless because that is where the rate of charge really starts to taper. For me, if I take a few extra minutes to reach 85%, that means a little in the bank for the next stop.

[NewQ]

I don’t mean long road trips, I mean having to plan to that level under threat of being stranded, and having it be a requirement to making a successful trip.

Isn’t the ability to take a road trip, absent those requirements, and having the freedom to do as you will with your time and route, objectively better?

[DroMike]

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by NewQ

I don’t mean long road trips, I mean having to plan to that level under threat of being stranded, and having it be a requirement to making a successful trip.

Isn’t the ability to take a road trip, absent those requirements, and having the freedom to do as you will with your time and route, objectively better?

I'm confused. Not sure what you are trying to say with "I don't mean long road trips"... If you are NOT doing a long road trip, and can charge at home, then planning is unnecessary. EV's are actually much more convenient than ICE as a DD.

..and as I've suggested before, EV's are likely not your best bet for long XC trips (unless you enjoy the planning). No one is suggesting this is a good choice for YOU...

Not sure what position you are trying to support here...

[CaboM4]

this guys is a troll ... why do we all keep feeding into it?

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by CaboM4

this guys is a troll ... why do we all keep feeding into it?

10-4

[NewQ]

Originally Posted by evanevery

I'm confused. Not sure what you are trying to say with "I don't mean long road trips"... If you are NOT doing a long road trip, and can charge at home, then planning is unnecessary. EV's are actually much more convenient than ICE as a DD.

..and as I've suggested before, EV's are likely not your best bet for long XC trips (unless you enjoy the planning). No one is suggesting this is a good choice for YOU...

Not sure what position you are trying to support here...

I thought that you thought that I meant I found long road-trips unenjoyable. So I was trying to say that no, I do enjoy long road trips, what I feel is a categorically negative experience is the charging. I was trying to clarify that that’s what I meant.

[NewQ]

I’m a skeptic and probably hold a net negative view of the total electric vehicle owning experience, I will admit that.

However, I think it’s more that I’m frustrated that people act like things are much rosier than they are, in defiance of reality. There’s not a ton of that here really; many people seem honest about the shortcomings, they just find them worth it.

The opening up of Tesla superchargers changes things. I’m open to an i7 where I wasn’t before.

[SW17LS]

For me the draw of an EV is for the driving experience and the convenience of never having to refuel. Having to charge on trips is a negative that I just have to weigh against the positives. Driving on a road trip is just going to be different in an EV, it probably always will. For instance I typically drive a 350 mile trip and only stop to use the bathroom or go through a drive thru, I don't need to refuel...so stopping for 30-35 minutes in an adjustment for sure, even without the questionable reliability of chargers

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by SW17LS

For me the draw of an EV is for the driving experience and the convenience of never having to refuel. Having to charge on trips is a negative that I just have to weigh against the positives. Driving on a road trip is just going to be different in an EV, it probably always will. For instance I typically drive a 350 mile trip and only stop to use the bathroom or go through a drive thru, I don't need to refuel...so stopping for 30-35 minutes in an adjustment for sure, even without the questionable reliability of chargers

...and it won't matter if you are charging at Tesla, other chargers, or how many there are along the way. You will STILL want to pre-plan your stops as you will be stopping for 30-60 minutes regardless and want to know what is there (restaurants, bathrooms, etc).

Travelling with an EV is just "different" and I wouldn't expect that to change anytime soon. When folks travelled by horse it was also different. Things change.

Many years ago, they were testing taxi's in Tokyo (I think) that had battery packs which snapped in place in the undercarriage. The drivers would roll in to a charging station, pull over something like a "grease pit", and a robot would remove their depleted battery and replace it with a fully charged battery. The drivers never even left their cars. It was actually faster than filling a car at a gas pump. Logistics aside, cars would need to have an agreed upon identical battery configuration - and it appears we haven't even settled on a charging adapter yet. Anyone who runs RC cars is used to a common battery configuration. Maybe someday we will have that for actual cars so all we need is a robot to switch the packs...

[SW17LS]

Originally Posted by evanevery

...and it won't matter if you are charging at Tesla, other chargers, or how many there are along the way. You will STILL want to pre-plan your stops as you will be stopping for 30-60 minutes regardless and want to know what is there (restaurants, bathrooms, etc).

Travelling with an EV is just "different" and I wouldn't expect that to change anytime soon. When folks travelled by horse it was also different. Things change.

Right, thats what I said...its just different and likely always will be.

[buddenfan]

Originally Posted by DroMike

Perhaps you'd like to view this 10-minute or so video somebody posted a month or two ago called, "Charging Test With The 2023 BMW i7! NO Issues!" Otherwise, MY personal experience with charging my i7 won't occur until around December when I receive my own car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuJuC-BuS9k

Bmw is able to use Tesla super chargers?

[DroMike]

Originally Posted by buddenfan

Bmw is able to use Tesla super chargers?

No, not until 2025. The video I posted is simply one that shows general charging capabilities with CCS chargers.

[buddenfan]

https://x.com/sawyermerritt/status/1...Aym2v0VKpMoIMw