'25 Toyota 4Runner Trailhunter

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Broncos have become pretty expensive. They did bring back the base for 2025 but it starts near 40k and once you add a few options then you are well into $40k+ territory for chintzy steel wheels and skinny tires. Still looking at $50k for a capable off-road Bronco. Bronco is more capable and has a lot more personality than the 4Runner but you have to deal with a new recall every month or two.

Unfortunately Ford dropped the Black Diamond model for 2025, which was the model that had very good off-road capabilities at a reasonable price because it had a locking rear diff as standard equipment.

My Bronco has had less recalls than my E90 did.

[Donut Lord]

Originally Posted by ASAP

again, not today stick from a 4runner and not an x3

wha? today stick?

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Donut Lord

wha? today stick?

my man... this is the 2025 4runner shifter not the ancient one from the prior generation you posted

[Donut Lord]

Originally Posted by ASAP

my man... this is the 2025 4runner shifter not the ancient one from the prior generation you posted

Well it was to show that even my 5th gen is better than what is going on in current M-cars. Using 6th Gen 4Runner, that looks way better.

[vt100]

Originally Posted by Donut Lord

Well it was to show that even my 5th gen is better than what is going on in current M-cars. Using 6th Gen 4Runner, that looks way better.

Hehe, I’ve been saying the same for a while
Besides, my 5th gen 4Runner gives me much better road feel through the steering wheel and through the suspension as well than any of the modern BMW including M cars

[Donut Lord]

Originally Posted by vt100

Hehe, I’ve been saying the same for a while
Besides, my 5th gen 4Runner gives me much better road feel through the steering wheel and through the suspension as well than any of the modern BMW including M cars

Oh is that the vibration I feel? Better road feel? haha jk

[vt100]

Originally Posted by Donut Lord

Oh is that the vibration I feel? Better road feel? haha jk

Hmm... No, I don't get any vibrations from the steering wheel At least since after I fixed the tie rod ends
But I do get feeling of potholes and large cracks on the road. That's especially fun when going on forest roads

[Donut Lord]

Originally Posted by vt100

Hmm... No, I don't get any vibrations from the steering wheel At least since after I fixed the tie rod ends
But I do get feeling of potholes and large cracks on the road. That's especially fun when going on forest roads

love it. thanks for the details!

[RM7]

That ain't a shifter, it's a drive mode selector.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

That's a pretty damn tough argument to make.

Wheezy 4 cylinder that isn't that reliable.
Still crappy gas mileage
Still painfully slow
No longer has the limited aftermarket support that comes with having used the same v6 and transmission for like 25 years or more.

I think you'd have a hard time arguing a 4Runner is a better vehicle than like a Tahoe Z71 diesel, which is larger, more capable, more reliable, and better on fuel.

I've driven a 4-Runner twice and couldn't get out of them fast enough. I honestly don't get the appeal at all. In addition to your above; clunky, cheap materials, horrible driving dynamics. I'd take a Grand Cherokee over a 4-Runner any day of the week.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

I've driven a 4-Runner twice and couldn't get out of them fast enough. I honestly don't get the appeal at all. In addition to your above; clunky, cheap materials, horrible driving dynamics. I'd take a Grand Cherokee over a 4-Runner any day of the week.

My wife has a 2020 4runner. I agree with everything you said. It makes for a terrible daily driver or long distance hauler, but my wife loves it. She and I don't know how to off road for sh!t either

The draw to them has been reliability, extremely rugged, simple, very easy to work on, cheap to maintain, old school, and seriously legit off road capability. The 6th gen 4Runner is too new to know if it will be like the prior gen 4runners. Though the on-road driving dynamics are trash when compared to most SUVs, they are exceptional for on road driving when you consider their insane off road capability. Wranglers and current gen Broncos, while offering some addition off road capability, are much worse on the road than a 4runner.

We routinely take ours on 5 to 12 hour road trips. If I could convince my wife to change out the all terrain tires she thinks "look so cool" for some all season SUV tires, it would be a bit quieter on the highway and probably get a few more mpgs as well. 18mpg max on the highway at 75-80mph is what we usually get unless it's windy and/or hilly. In that case, it's 15-16mpg. LOL

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Wranglers and current gen Broncos, while offering some addition off road capability, are much worse on the road than a 4runner.

I disagree with you here. While I can't speak to the Bronco, I've owned every generation Wrangler from the YJ to current. My experience has been the Wrangler offers the best of both worlds. The on-road driving dynamics are very predictable, they have plenty of power, relatively comfortable on long trips, easy to work on/modify, and I've never had an issue with them off-road whether in the mud, rocks, trails, snow, etc. My 16-yr-old currently has an '03 Wrangler X with 159k mi & driving that at 80 mph on the freeway is no more an issue than taking it off-road.

We've also owned several Grand Cherokees, and they had great road manners, were very comfortable, and very capable off-road as well. If the dealer service wasn't so poor & the last one we had ('23) had all sorts of issues with the software/infotainment, we'd get another.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

I disagree with you here. While I can't speak to the Bronco, I've owned every generation Wrangler from the YJ to current. My experience has been the Wrangler offers the best of both worlds. The on-road driving dynamics are very predictable, they have plenty of power, relatively comfortable on long trips, easy to work on/modify, and I've never had an issue with them off-road whether in the mud, rocks, trails, snow, etc. My 16-yr-old currently has an '03 Wrangler X with 159k mi & driving that at 80 mph on the freeway is no more an issue than taking it off-road.

We've also owned several Grand Cherokees, and they had great road manners, were very comfortable, and very capable off-road as well. If the dealer service wasn't so poor & the last one we had ('23) had all sorts of issues with the software/infotainment, we'd get another.

I'll speak to the Bronco since I have a 2022 Black Diamond, and I had a Wrangler YJ for 12 years and 120,000 miles. I've not driven a 4Runner, but I've been in a few (early 2000 generations). The issue here is the Wrangler's solid front axle vs. the Bronco (and 4Runner - post '85 MY) independent front suspension (IFS). I road tripped a lot in the YJ Wrangler, most up to New England in the winter spending 8+ hours a day driving it. While it is a lovely raw, loud, and crude vehicle by modern SUV standards (even in 1995), I found it enjoyable to drive (keep in mind this is a perspective from someone who also road trips motorcycles). The leaf-spring front solid axle never had the "death wobble" I've read about with later coil-spring Wranglers. I found the YJ to give decent steering feedback and precision (from its recirculating ball steering gear) and good brake feel.

The Gen 6 Bronco is really worlds better than a YJ with its wishbone IFS. The Broncos have great steering feel (for a 4x4), lots of precision and feedback. I've taken mine several times on Bonzi runs through the Virginia/West Virginia mountains for nearly non-stop 10-hour day trips and it is super comfortable and a joy to drive. I can't compare it to a current JK Wrangler because I've not driven one. A buddy has one, a hard top, but I've yet to drive it. I've been in it as a right-seat passenger for several hours' time and found it quite comfortable; they are noticeably quieter than a Bronco (well, mine at least). A current JK Wrangler is also worlds better than the YJ (heck, everything is - LOL).

I also have a Hummer H3T, which is a fantastic long-run, small-block, road trip machine as GM is expert at making. Great road manners and really good off road too.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

My wife has a 2020 4runner. I agree with everything you said. It makes for a terrible daily driver or long distance hauler, but my wife loves it. She and I don't know how to off road for sh!t either

The draw to them has been reliability, extremely rugged, simple, very easy to work on, cheap to maintain, old school, and seriously legit off road capability. The 6th gen 4Runner is too new to know if it will be like the prior gen 4runners. Though the on-road driving dynamics are trash when compared to most SUVs, they are exceptional for on road driving when you consider their insane off road capability. Wranglers and current gen Broncos, while offering some addition off road capability, are much worse on the road than a 4runner.

We routinely take ours on 5 to 12 hour road trips. If I could convince my wife to change out the all terrain tires she thinks "look so cool" for some all season SUV tires, it would be a bit quieter on the highway and probably get a few more mpgs as well. 18mpg max on the highway at 75-80mph is what we usually get unless it's windy and/or hilly. In that case, it's 15-16mpg. LOL

I have KO2's on my HummerH3T, now with some 16,000 miles on them and they are still quiet. I's assume the new KO3's are the same.

I'd say my Bronco is every bit off road capable as a 4Runner and probably has better on-road manners.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'd say my Bronco is every bit off road capable as a 4Runner and probably has better on-road manners.

ehhhh....I have two friends with Broncos. Once is a two door and one is a 4 door. Both are outfitted with K02 or 03s (can't remember which) from the factory. They are LOUD on the inside compared to our 4runner. Not just tire noise, but just plain noise. Plus all the rattles from the hardtop panels. A 4runner is like a vault in comparison.

Same with newer and current gen Wranglers. I have two other friends with 2015+ 4-door Wranglers. Exhausting on the inside. They both have much larger than stock tires though which is a big part of it. Both routinely see 12-16 mpg city/hwy. My God.

IMO, they all suck on the highway and as daily driver, IMO. But if I was overlanding in remote places, I would drive nothing other than a 5th gen 4runner. Bomb proof and capable. I wouldn't trust a Bronco and sure as hell not a 2007+ Wrangler if I were far from service/recovery

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Same with newer and current gen Wranglers. I have two other friends with 2015+ 4-door Wranglers. Exhausting on the inside. They both have much larger than stock tires though which is a big part of it. Both routinely see 12-16 mpg city/hwy. My God.

IMO, they all suck on the highway and as daily driver, IMO. But if I was overlanding in remote places, I would drive nothing other than a 5th gen 4runner. Bomb proof and capable. I wouldn't trust a Bronco and sure as hell not a 2007+ Wrangler if I were far from service/recovery

Owned lots of Wranglers including a 2016 JKU Backcountry Edition. It came with mud terrains which were both extremely loud and dangerous on the road. Put some good tires on them & they are not loud (hard top) & drive great on the highway. Also never had any issues with them off-road

The problem with Wranglers, and any "off-road" vehicle is people mod them often with crappy parts then wonder why they drive so poorly - i.e., your friends with much larger than stock tires.

[LeggoRacing]

I wasn’t a fan of previous 4 runners. Drove a few and just wasn’t a fan but appreciate the reliability of course. But have been happy with our trailhunter. 10k miles in. That overland suspension rides really nice on the highway and the toyos have been fantastic all around

[Innovade]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

I disagree with you here. While I can't speak to the Bronco, I've owned every generation Wrangler from the YJ to current. My experience has been the Wrangler offers the best of both worlds. The on-road driving dynamics are very predictable, they have plenty of power, relatively comfortable on long trips, easy to work on/modify, and I've never had an issue with them off-road whether in the mud, rocks, trails, snow, etc. My 16-yr-old currently has an '03 Wrangler X with 159k mi & driving that at 80 mph on the freeway is no more an issue than taking it off-road.

We've also owned several Grand Cherokees, and they had great road manners, were very comfortable, and very capable off-road as well. If the dealer service wasn't so poor & the last one we had ('23) had all sorts of issues with the software/infotainment, we'd get another.

Zero chance anything with a solid front axle has better driving dynamics than IFS on road.

[oneofew]

Haha, didn't expect to bump into a thread for a Toyota 4runner on BMW forum.
Having said that recently I got a 25 TRD-Off road same color (Everest). I actually made the move from my 9 yr old 200 series LC to the 6th gen 4runner. So far so good as a city slicker, but very soon, once I install the bash plates I intend to put it through its paces in the desert.
BTW first mod, removed the hideous front air dam.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

ehhhh....I have two friends with Broncos. One is a two door and one is a 4 door. Both are outfitted with K02 or 03s (can't remember which) from the factory. They are LOUD on the inside compared to our 4runner. Not just tire noise, but just plain noise. Plus all the rattles from the hardtop panels. A 4runner is like a vault in comparison.

Same with newer and current gen Wranglers. I have two other friends with 2015+ 4-door Wranglers. Exhausting on the inside. They both have much larger than stock tires though which is a big part of it. Both routinely see 12-16 mpg city/hwy. My God.

IMO, they all suck on the highway and as daily driver, IMO. But if I was overlanding in remote places, I would drive nothing other than a 5th gen 4runner. Bomb proof and capable. I wouldn't trust a Bronco and sure as hell not a 2007+ Wrangler if I were far from service/recovery

The reason hardtop Broncos are "loud" on the inside (relative to a 4Runner) is exactly because Broncos have a lightweight, plastic, removable hardtop and the 4Runner has a fixed-in-place steel roof. The Bronco also has removable doors. The removeable body components let in more noise than an enclosed 4Runnner because the body gaps must be bigger to allow for easy removal and reinstallation of the doors and roof sections. Added to that, the lower trim Broncos like my Black Diamond have less noise insulation added to the body cavities than the higher trim levels. My friend's Wrangler Sierra (hardtop) is quieter than my Bronco, but the Sierra is a luxury trim level of the Wrangler much as the Outer Banks Bronco is to the Black Diamond. It's the price one pays to have a highly capable ORV with removeable roof panels and doors. If one wants such a vehicle then the slightly elevated noise level shouldn't bother him.

I'm not sure why you say, "they all suck on the highway and as a daily driver". Suck as compared to what, a Lexus LS sedan? My comparison of my Bronco is to the 1995 YJ Wrangler and by comparison the Gen 6 Bronco is a Cadillac. It's a matter of perspective.

Regarding your two friend's Broncos, two things, if the tops are making noise it is either (a) the front panels need adjustment (there is a Ford TSB pertaining to it), or (b) they need to lube the bottom rubber seal on the back flip-up glass panel. I use Sil-Glide. It's actually the rear tailgate that makes creaking and popping noises because it carries the heavy rear tire.

[Tejas1836]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

That's a pretty damn tough argument to make.

Wheezy 4 cylinder that isn't that reliable.
Still crappy gas mileage
Still painfully slow
No longer has the limited aftermarket support that comes with having used the same v6 and transmission for like 25 years or more.

I think you'd have a hard time arguing a 4Runner is a better vehicle than like a Tahoe Z71 diesel, which is larger, more capable, more reliable, and better on fuel.

GMC right up there with KIA & Hyundai reliability

[Efthreeoh]

On my Bronco I didn't need to remove a front air dam; it came with a good 'ole steel bumpers and skidplate(s).