'25 Toyota 4Runner Trailhunter

[Rocco Lauro]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

That's a pretty damn tough argument to make.

Wheezy 4 cylinder that isn't that reliable.
Still crappy gas mileage
Still painfully slow
No longer has the limited aftermarket support that comes with having used the same v6 and transmission for like 25 years or more.

I think you'd have a hard time arguing a 4Runner is a better vehicle than like a Tahoe Z71 diesel, which is larger, more capable, more reliable, and better on fuel.

I wouldn’t say that, not about the Duramax. They’re having thrust bearing issues now and it’s a growing trend. Another thing, all the emmissions systems in 8-10 years are going to start failing, as they always do, and it gets expensive. The 4Runner’s engine is the same one in the NX since 2022, and is in an engine family that has been around since 2016, and has been proven. Can’t really say the same about the transmission, they’ve had issues in the beginning, especially with the iForceMAX, but the 10-speed in the Tahoe is absolute garbage anyway.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'm not sure why you say, "they all suck on the highway and as a daily driver". Suck as compared to what, a Lexus LS sedan? My comparison of my Bronco is to the 1995 YJ Wrangler and by comparison the Gen 6 Bronco is a Cadillac. It's a matter of perspective.

Yes, pretty much that. They make terrible daily drivers and on-road long distance haulers. Wranglers, 4Runner, and Broncos have terrible accident avoidance and handling dynamics, dismal emergency braking capability, high rollover potential, get dismal MPGs, have dangerous threshold braking in the wet on all terrain tires, and are loud on the inside. I could never daily one and the only time I really enjoy driving our 4runner is in snowy conditions and off road. Otherwise, it's full of compromise, especially on the safety side.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Yes, pretty much that. They make terrible daily drivers and on-road long distance haulers. Wranglers, 4Runner, and Broncos have terrible accident avoidance and handling dynamics, dismal emergency braking capability, high rollover potential, get dismal MPGs, have dangerous threshold braking in the wet on all terrain tires, and are loud on the inside. I could never daily one and the only time I really enjoy driving our 4runner is in snowy conditions and off road. Otherwise, it's full of compromise, especially on the safety side.

So are you parroting automotive reviews or have you actually owned a Wrangler or Bronco? Having owned 7 different Wranglers since 1994 & having a 22-yr-old TJ currently in my driveway, I disagree with your claims.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

So are you parroting automotive reviews or have you actually owned a Wrangler or Bronco? Having owned 7 different Wranglers since 1994 & having a 22-yr-old TJ currently in my driveway, I disagree with your claims.

Yes, my experience is based on driving my wife's 2020 4runner for 5 years and my friend's Badlands Broncos (2 and 4 door variants), a friend's 2018 4 door Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, and a friend's dad's 2012 2 door Wrangler that I recently did a oil filter housing replacement on, new shocks, plugs, power steering pump, and front and rear diff cover seals. I've driven that particular Jeep quite a bit.

You don't agree that 4runners, Broncos, and Wranglers do not have terrible on road handling, braking, accident avoidance capabilities compared to a car and car-based SUV of the same year? Interesting. Is your daily driver a school bus?

As taken from various Car & Driver road test data:

A 2018 Camry base model on tiny all season non-performance tires brakes from 70 in 170' and has a lateral grip of 0.88 gs on 300' skidpad.

A 2019 BMW M2 on MSS tires brakes from 70 in 155' and has a lateral grip of 0.99 gs.

A 2022 Bronco Badlands on AT tires brakes from 70 in 205' and has a lateral grip of 0.73 gs

A 2022 4runner Pro on AT tires brakes from 70 in 193' and has a lateral grip of 0.72 gs.

A 2018 Jeep Rubicon on AT tires brakes from 70 in 203' and has a lateral grip of 0.69 gs.

[Socal_R8]

I loved our old 4-Runner and almost got another one recently, but fell in love with the Bronco and got one of those instead...New 4-Runner looks good though.

love being able to go topless


and have no problems on the trails

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

You don't agree that 4runners, Broncos, and Wranglers do not have terrible on road handling, braking, accident avoidance capabilities compared to a car and car-based SUV of the same year? Interesting. Is your daily driver a school bus?

My current daily is a '23 M2. Again, I've owned many Wranglers from a '94 YJ Sahara bought brand new, '98 TJ, '00 TJ, '15 JKU, '16 JKU, & my son currently drives a '03 Wrangler X. I find them to be perfectly capable on-road in all conditions, and great off-road. I drive a lot of miles (my M2 has 33k mi already). Wranglers are not horrible daily drivers, they aren't uncomfortable, and our JKU hard top wasn't any louder on the highwat than my M2 with x-pipe & exhaust w/valves 100% open is. I regularly drove the JKU 300-400 mi trips. The '03 is pushing it going 80 on the freeway, but the JKU had no issue zipping a long. Never once felt the braking was inadequate or the handling dangerous.

Comparing a Jeep/Bronco/4-Runner to a car is ridiculous. My M2 has worse braking compared to my Z06. So I guess I shoudn't drive the M2

[Phillies8008]

I have no need or want for an off-road anything, but I have to admit that the Bronco with the retro 70s paint job is pretty damn cool. If I were going to get that sort of thing, I'd be tempted.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Yes, my experience is based on driving my wife's 2020 4runner for 5 years and my friend's Badlands Broncos (2 and 4 door variants), a friend's 2018 4 door Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, and a friend's dad's 2012 2 door Wrangler that I recently did a oil filter housing replacement on, new shocks, plugs, power steering pump, and front and rear diff cover seals. I've driven that particular Jeep quite a bit.

You don't agree that 4runners, Broncos, and Wranglers do not have terrible on road handling, braking, accident avoidance capabilities compared to a car and car-based SUV of the same year? Interesting. Is your daily driver a school bus?

As taken from various Car & Driver road test data:

A 2018 Camry base model on tiny all season non-performance tires brakes from 70 in 170' and has a lateral grip of 0.88 gs on 300' skidpad.

A 2019 BMW M2 on MSS tires brakes from 70 in 155' and has a lateral grip of 0.99 gs.

A 2022 Bronco Badlands on AT tires brakes from 70 in 205' and has a lateral grip of 0.73 gs

A 2022 4runner Pro on AT tires brakes from 70 in 193' and has a lateral grip of 0.72 gs.

A 2018 Jeep Rubicon on AT tires brakes from 70 in 203' and has a lateral grip of 0.69 gs.

I'm not flaming your point of view, just offering perspective from my experience.

For the better part of my entire 45+ year driving career I have had at least one 4x4 pickup truck and/or Jeep/Bronco in the fleet along with at least one car (and for 37 years at least one BMW 3-Series). Obviously, none of the 4x4's could match the driving dynamics of braking and lateral grip of the cars and especially the BMWs. But to say the difference in driving dynamics stats make the trucks "terrible" daily drivers is a matter of personal preference and perspective. To be specific, from 1995 to 2009 we had an E30/E90 and a 1995 Jeep Wrngler YJ. Talk about stark contrast! But I very much enjoyed road tripping in the YJ (especially to New England in the wintertime).

I have also owned a motorcycle throughout my driving career too, which has better dynamics than any car, BMW, or truck, but when I got past 35 daily'ing a motorcycle got less desirable. And if we flip the script and use a stock-equipped car or stock-equipped BMW sedan for off road use (i.e. trail riding) they really would make a for terrible ORV whereas a stock-equipped ORV makes for a decent daily driver.

Being that I live in a rural area and the back-country roads are mostly traffic free I get to put all my cars and ORVs through their paces. Driving at reasonable levels above the speed limits and aggressiveness, the H3T and the Bronco can nearly match the elevated road speeds my BMWs do and are easily within 5 MPH of the Bimmers in most corners. The H3T has the Adventure package so it sits on 33's (KO2's at the moment) and the Bronc is on 32's (General AT). I find both entertaining to drive, especially the Bronco with its 2.3L EcoBoost and manual transmission; I don't expect 3-series dynamics from it, but it still is fun to rip around in the mountains of western Virginia and West Virgina, and it's not that far off.

I could take easily either the H3T or Bronco across country and be more comfortable than our 28-year-old Z3 (which we've road tripped 3 times out to the Rockies). My Z4 is not much less noisy than the Bronco, especially when the Z4's tires get around 6/32nds trad depth.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

I have no need or want for an off-road anything, but I have to admit that the Bronco with the retro 70s paint job is pretty damn cool. If I were going to get that sort of thing, I'd be tempted.

Attachment 3851349

I'm not big fan of the 4-door Bronco look, but when you put the groovy '70s graphics on it, it makes it look way better.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

Comparing a Jeep/Bronco/4-Runner to a car is ridiculous. My M2 has worse braking compared to my Z06. So I guess I shoudn't drive the M2

I made the comparison to provide perspective about just how badly Jeep/Bronco/4-Runner brake and handle compared to the most basic and boring car available today, a base model Camry. A Jeep/Bronco/4-Runner on the typical AT tires are about as bad as it gets for modern vehicles in terms of on-road refinement and dynamics. The Jeep/Bronco/4-Runner excel in offroad capability for a stock SUV. There's really no other comparison. It is impressive that you can drive them distance on road in ok comfort and get an off road location to go places most any other factory vehicle couldn't manage. Every vehicle has it's compromises. For the Jeep/Bronco/4-Runner, it's on road dynamics and refinement.

Your Calloway-prepped Z06 (or even a stock one) should absolutely handle and brake better than your M2. My 2011 Cayman is way better dynamically, than my 2018 M2. The M2 feels like a wet pork chop in comparison.

[jaffles]

So no talk about talk about turning circle, wading depth, approach and departure angles, ramp over and ground clearance, payload, GVM, fuel tank size, long range tank options, water tank or fridge placement, roof rack or solar panel fitment, dues battery location, diff locks, articulation, towing capacity etc? You Americans haha

Down under we just accept its 2+ ton so its never going to handle. Haven't experienced a 4x4 tyre yet that's better than average in the wet. Nor bite enough in the dry to stop momentum drifting a high clearance vehicle around the corner. And certainly won't stop anything like the 1.3T car in front of you.

[Donut Lord]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

So are you parroting automotive reviews or have you actually owned a Wrangler or Bronco? Having owned 7 different Wranglers since 1994 & having a 22-yr-old TJ currently in my driveway, I disagree with your claims.

Which claim specific? or everything all together? (not my claim, the other guys)

[spazzyfry123]

Sounds like some of you guys need to give the Ranger Raptor a spin

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Sounds like some of you guys need to give the Ranger Raptor a spin

Overrated, IMO. I'd much rather have a well optioned Bronco Badlands or a 5th gen 4runner with a supercharger, and make it my own if I wanted a killer late model trail or overlanding vehicle.

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Overrated, IMO. I'd much rather have a well optioned Bronco Badlands or a 5th gen 4runner with a supercharger, and make it my own if I wanted a killer late model trail or overlanding vehicle.

I should have clarified. My intent was to address those with concerns of a vehicle that can do the offroad but still have great road mannerisms. It's a bit of a "sports car" with a bed. I had seriously considered a Bronco - especially since it shares a lot of the underpinnings with the Ranger. The Bronco has a lot of road/wind noise that is addressed in the Ranger. Steering feels great for what it is with plenty of oomph. For overall feel, you really feel like you're a part of the Ranger Raptor, whereas the Broncos I feel like I'm more "on top" of the truck giving it commands. Surprisingly, you can feel the Ranger rotate around you. The panhard bar with the Bronco is great for articulation, but I'll take the Watt's Link in the rear on the Ranger. It seems like the viable option for a sports car guy that's looking for a truck.

Again, it's a truck. It's on 33" K03s from the factory. Take it for what it is. It does a lot of on-road with a great positive surprise despite it being a bit offroad focused. It doesn't feel as "truckish" as one may consider given that it's, well, a truck. A fifth generation 4Runner feels archaic in comparison and does drive like a truck. All told, I've got nothing but love for the 4Runners. Great machines. I'm a Toyota fan boy (I own two Land Cruisers), but it just isn't the same thing.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

I should have clarified. My intent was to address those with concerns of a vehicle that can do the offroad but still have great road mannerisms. It's a bit of a "sports car" with a bed. I had seriously considered a Bronco - especially since it shares a lot of the underpinnings with the Ranger. The Bronco has a lot of road/wind noise that is addressed in the Ranger. Steering feels great for what it is with plenty of oomph. For overall feel, you really feel like you're a part of the Ranger Raptor, whereas the Broncos I feel like I'm more "on top" of the truck giving it commands. Surprisingly, you can feel the Ranger rotate around you. The panhard bar with the Bronco is great for articulation, but I'll take the Watt's Link in the rear on the Ranger. It seems like the viable option for a sports car guy that's looking for a truck.

Again, it's a truck. It's on 33" K03s from the factory. Take it for what it is. It does a lot of on-road with a great positive surprise despite it being a bit offroad focused. It doesn't feel as "truckish" as one may consider given that it's, well, a truck. A fifth generation 4Runner feels archaic in comparison and does drive like a truck. All told, I've got nothing but love for the 4Runners. Great machines. I'm a Toyota fan boy (I own two Land Cruisers), but it just isn't the same thing.

Crap. I mis-read. Yeah, the Ranger Raptor is a great truck. Looks the part too. Totally agree with you.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

I should have clarified. My intent was to address those with concerns of a vehicle that can do the offroad but still have great road mannerisms. It's a bit of a "sports car" with a bed. I had seriously considered a Bronco - especially since it shares a lot of the underpinnings with the Ranger. The Bronco has a lot of road/wind noise that is addressed in the Ranger. Steering feels great for what it is with plenty of oomph. For overall feel, you really feel like you're a part of the Ranger Raptor, whereas the Broncos I feel like I'm more "on top" of the truck giving it commands. Surprisingly, you can feel the Ranger rotate around you. The panhard bar with the Bronco is great for articulation, but I'll take the Watt's Link in the rear on the Ranger. It seems like the viable option for a sports car guy that's looking for a truck.

Again, it's a truck. It's on 33" K03s from the factory. Take it for what it is. It does a lot of on-road with a great positive surprise despite it being a bit offroad focused. It doesn't feel as "truckish" as one may consider given that it's, well, a truck. A fifth generation 4Runner feels archaic in comparison and does drive like a truck. All told, I've got nothing but love for the 4Runners. Great machines. I'm a Toyota fan boy (I own two Land Cruisers), but it just isn't the same thing.

My 1987 Ranger STX was like that. It had a lifted off-road suspension (Twin-I Beam) and had Mustang GT bucket seats. Now back then Ford had no small displacement V6 motors with tons of power, but the STX handled on the road really good and was an off-road beast too. Great sport truck from the factory.

[Donut Lord]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Sounds like some of you guys need to give the Ranger Raptor a spin

Raptor R's or bust!

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by Donut Lord

Raptor R's or bust!

Different world entirely!

[Donut Lord]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Different world entirely!

R is always better! right?

[SaMaster18]

My girlfriend has a 2004 4Runner with almost 250k miles and loves the thing to death.

Although, we were at the LA Auto Show yesterday and sat in a couple of the brand new ones and she seems sold on upgrading soon!

[JacekSky]

Yes this is amazing car i love trucks.