Is there a car company that you can honestly say has NOT lost its way?

[heavyD^2]

I have a 25 Badlands 2-door with the new port/direct injection ecoboost 2.3L and 10-speed and I have to admit the midrange power of this engine is amongst the best 4-cylinder engines I've driven. It feels like it has much more power on tap than 310 hp.

[Altamate]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Ford has some sweet offerings.

Regular cab 5.0 V8 F-150 that you can slap a Whipple on for 700+ HP with a factory warranty? Check
Ranger Raptor with all kinds of goodies and ridiculous power and an aftermarket base that's difficult to counter? Check
Folks in the 10s in the 1/4 in their Soccer Mom Explorer? Check
We haven't even gotten to their "actual" performance lineup. Move over Dodge with just slapping a Hellcat into everything (as cool as it is), there's some serious variety coming out of Ford and it's yours for the taking.

I was skeptical of a 4 cylinder in the Bronco, but color me impressed. Pretty rad powertrain for what it is. Great that you can get it with a third pedal no less. It just screams fun.

Are Broncos selling, I don’t see very many on the road? I live in pick-up land, seems like everyone has one.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Ford has some sweet offerings.

Regular cab 5.0 V8 F-150 that you can slap a Whipple on for 700+ HP with a factory warranty? Check
Ranger Raptor with all kinds of goodies and ridiculous power and an aftermarket base that's difficult to counter? Check
Folks in the 10s in the 1/4 in their Soccer Mom Explorer? Check
We haven't even gotten to their "actual" performance lineup. Move over Dodge with just slapping a Hellcat into everything (as cool as it is), there's some serious variety coming out of Ford and it's yours for the taking.

I was skeptical of a 4 cylinder in the Bronco, but color me impressed. Pretty rad powertrain for what it is. Great that you can get it with a third pedal no less. It just screams fun.

And you can bump the HP by 30 and the TQ by 70 pounds with a FoMoCo performance tune.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

My brother recently retired and had the cash to buy a new "last" car. It is replacing his 190,000-mile Crossfire MT. He decided at his age and dealing with DC suburban traffic for his entire driving life, the GTI DSG he considered is "good enough" and he still has two other vehicles that have manual transmissions. He likes a sub-170 inch length car under 3,300 pounds. The GTI fits the bill. He didn’t want any of the hot hatches from Asia. The GTI definitely feels German from my butt-O-meter.

GTI is a great car!

Originally Posted by Altamate

Are Broncos selling, I don’t see very many on the road? I live in pick-up land, seems like everyone has one.

I see the "bronco tanks" everywhere here. Big bronco with huge lift kit bigger flares big wheels up sized off-road tires ladders and lights and scaffolding. Next iteration of tiny penis syndrome.

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by Altamate

Are Broncos selling, I don’t see very many on the road? I live in pick-up land, seems like everyone has one.

I live in a somewhat rural area and any direction but south it gets quite rural. It’s predominantly trucks. Some are the brodoze variant, but many are because, well, you need a truck to haul your cattle or whatever. That said, still a ton of Broncos running around. More so Wranglers, but definitely a lot of the Broncos. Head south and the Broncos become more and more apparent. 9/10 are for the pavement.

Having owned Jeeps, I’d take a Bronco over one of those any day of the week.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I did not drive my brother's GTI on Sunday, so I've not yet driven a DCT. I have driven several iterations of the ZF6/8 auto both in the F30 BMW and Caddy ATS and was not that impressed. But I think all automatic transmissions suck, so I'm highly biased.

Riding in the GTI though, I did pay attention to the shifts, and when my brother got into the throttle the DCT shifted quite precisely and was crisp, like a good manual transmission operator can shift. He has not yet used/learned the paddles but is slowly introducing himself to that mode of operation. I think for him, the DCT shift quality is close enough to a 3-pedal manual that he recovers some of the shift precision he has been used to all his life.

I really dislike the VW DSG. In auto mode it shifts into high gears too early and lugs. In manual mode it is better but you still aren’t in control as the car overrides your changes when it feels like it. Not good.

I think the best overall balanced DCT I’ve driven is in the C8. Works beautifully as an auto in traffic and in manual shifts really quickly and very smoothly. Possibly too smoothly. See below.

The 992 is probably second best in auto mode but is definitely not perfect. It is quick in manual and pretty smooth too, more dramatic than C8 which is a good thing. The annoying thing about it is that it keeps switching back to auto. If I pull a paddle I want to be in manual mode from this point on and not have to hunt for buttons.

The M-DCT is/was pretty jerky in auto but is probably the most fun of all in manual the way the changes are so ferocious. Just suits the car so well. It delivers thrills. I never drove my old DCT cars in auto.

Going to true auto the ZF8 has so many different flavours and is also very dependent on manufacturer tune. They are not the same in each car. I think a good ZF8 is probably the best overall balance between every day use and performance driving. It’s the jack of all trades.

For fun. It’s a naturally aspirated manual for me. Can’t beat that. But that has to be a weekend/special occasion car only.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Davil

I really dislike the VW DSG. In auto mode it shifts into high gears too early and lugs. In manual mode it is better but you still aren’t in control as the car overrides your changes when it feels like it. Not good.

I think the best overall balanced DCT I’ve driven is in the C8. Works beautifully as an auto in traffic and in manual shifts really quickly and very smoothly. Possibly too smoothly. See below.

The 992 is probably second best in auto mode but is definitely not perfect. It is quick in manual and pretty smooth too, more dramatic than C8 which is a good thing. The annoying thing about it is that it keeps switching back to auto. If I pull a paddle I want to be in manual mode from this point on and not have to hunt for buttons.

The M-DCT is/was pretty jerky in auto but is probably the most fun of all in manual the way the changes are so ferocious. Just suits the car so well. It delivers thrills. I never drove my old DCT cars in auto.

Going to true auto the ZF8 has so many different flavours and is also very dependent on manufacturer tune. They are not the same in each car. I think a good ZF8 is probably the best overall balance between every day use and performance driving. It’s the jack of all trades.

For fun. It’s a naturally aspirated manual for me. Can’t beat that. But that has to be a weekend/special occasion car only.

The several ZF6/8 I've driven in manual mode pretty much suck and they take over control for you as well, meaning you can't stall it, it will downshift into neutral, and they will not overrev. The ZF's upshift too early as well because they are programmed for minimizing fuel consumption as are all automatics. I'll stick with 3 pedals, regardless of traffic or what day of the week.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by Altamate

Are Broncos selling, I don’t see very many on the road? I live in pick-up land, seems like everyone has one.

It's anecdotal, but I see them everywhere. At least in the SE United States, they seem to be selling well.

FWIW, sales for the first half of 2025 were 72,063, up ~44% YoY.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Jerky? In Sport mode maybe but puttering around in regular D is pretty seamless. Sport is kind of compulsory though as it REALLY livens up the gas pedal. My routine is flip the controller to M, press SPORT (not Sport+, that is not needed) then turn OFF the firmer ride that is default in SPORT. The 997 is a great car but TBH it is not really for tootling around town as the ride is too firm, after market solutions have solved the issue to some degree but a 991 is far more civilised. The 997 is far happier on smooth roads and being driven hard but ride quality is a sore point, especially alone, loaded up with 2 adults and two kids the extra weight calms things down a bit.

The stick vs DSG/PDK thing was not really the discussion, it was DSG/PDK vs traditional AUTO. I'd have preferred a stick but in 3 years could not find an aqua blue cab in stick and STILL have not seen one 3 years later with less than 100K miles.

Modern autos are fast enough IMO. No, they're not as fast as a good DSG. But they're fast enough to hit the mark. It's the difference between running 60fps or 120fps, sure the 120 is better, but are you really going to notice? Probably not, they're both faster than humans can notice.

But yeah, it was super jerky. Maybe it was a fluid thing, maybe a fluid temp thing, maybe a "I'm used to a normal automatic or a well driven manual" thing... But it was rough shifting and jerky around town.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Altamate

Are Broncos selling, I don’t see very many on the road? I live in pick-up land, seems like everyone has one.

Broncos are everywhere here. There's probably 2-3 in my community of 100 houses. And another 2-3 Bronco Sports. Super popular.

Not full size truck popular of course, but very popular. They're definitely taking some Jeep Wrangler sales.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Davil

The annoying thing about it is that it keeps switching back to auto. If I pull a paddle I want to be in manual mode from this point on and not have to hunt for buttons.

Say what? Are you serious? Wait so you are in M and it still selects gears for you? My 997 won't let me kill the engine, so it won't let me rev past 7200rpm or shift down to 1st at 100kmh but otherwise I am free to do what I want.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

I can definitively say if I can't have a manual I'd rather have a ZF6/8. I don't understand the appeal of the DCT/PDK.

In the case of my brother, he didn't buy the GTI for the DCT transmission, it was just the only choice.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Say what? Are you serious? Wait so you are in M and it still selects gears for you? My 997 won't let me kill the engine, so it won't let me rev past 7200rpm or shift down to 1st at 100kmh but otherwise I am free to do what I want.

Even in manual mode though, the PDK will automatically select the appropriate gear at low speeds or a stop though, right? It won't let you start out in 5th, or roll at 10mph 6th, correct?

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I still wouldn't buy a car with a DSG over one with a stick, unless it was exclusively a track car.

I would never buy another BMW manual. I had a 2016 M235 6MT for over 7 years. I had to do a $300 Ultimate Clutch Pedal and M Performance shift knob just to make it somewhat enjoyable in daily driving. I never got around to doing the clutch delay valve mod. The stock clutch pick up point moved all around the place (largely due to the valve), the catch point was high off the floor, and the resting height of the clutch pedal was much higher than the brake pedal. The 6MT was under-geared. And occasion, there was a notable lag in power on moderate shifts below 6000rpms. Apparently OG M2s really suffer badly from this lag issue. The 6MT felt terrible in Comfort mode.

I still loved the 2 series chassis and the N55 so I upgraded to a 2018 M2 DCT. A wildly different driving experience. SO MUCH MORE responsive with that DCT. Way more gearing and no lag. In stock form, it's as fast as my M235 6MT was with Stage 2 mods. The DCT isn't perfect, but it's such a better transmission teamed with a turbo motor.

My other car is a 6MT 2011 Cayman and that transmission is wildly better than the M235's plus it's an NA thus no lag issues and feels awesome. I wouldn't want a PDK in that car. It does suffer from long gearing though. If I could add 10-15% more gearing in 1st-3rd, it would be perfect.

[BlkGS]

I haven't driven a modern manual BMW, but I have heard from multiple people that they suck, and that even the not so modern manual BMWs kinda sucked too.

All the domestic and JDM and Porsche manuals I've driven have been great, so I can't really relate to the BMW ones being kinda crappy.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Even in manual mode though, the PDK will automatically select the appropriate gear at low speeds or a stop though, right? It won't let you start out in 5th, or roll at 10mph 6th, correct?

Right, that's if you're being a complete dickhead though, he's making it sound like it just sorta disapproves of anything it's not happy with.

[25 V8 IS]

Being a Lexus IS500 owner, when it comes to Lexus (just with the IS), they have not lost their way because they are still using a 13 year old platform.

[jaffles]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Not least bit sarcastic, nor am I implying that any measurable part of the population is doing 0-60 runs or more than 10% of any given car's capabilities.

I am commenting on increased performance ceiling of new cars compared to what they used to be 10-20-30-40 years ago. An average person can now buy <4-second 0-60 capable cars now for <$65K - a performance that was unimaginable for super-cars of yesteryear. And folks are buying them by the bushel-load, including from BMW.

Not because higher performance cars are necessary for redlight runs, but because even a fraction of that performance is FUN. And a meaningful portion of the US car buying public appreciates fun behind the wheel!

I have to pay this.

The wife in her PriusC is as conservative as they come.
Put her in her new second hand 330d, and the inner bogan has shown itself. Not quire red line yet but times are a changing.

[NickyC]

There are many new Porsches I would like to own. They are doing a fantastic job, though the prices are too steep for most.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by jaffles

I have to pay this.

The wife in her PriusC is as conservative as they come.
Put her in her new second hand 330d, and the inner bogan has shown itself. Not quire red line yet but times are a changing.

Mate I don't think they know what a bogan is.

[T.R.S.]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Mate I don't think they know what a bogan is.

That mate is a lucky bloke to have found a way to bring out the wife's inner brogan, right bro?

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Right, that's if you're being a complete dickhead though, he's making it sound like it just sorta disapproves of anything it's not happy with.

No I was saying that if you use the paddles it does not stay in manual mode. It switches back to auto after a short period. Just bad design. You have take your eyes off the road and choose manual mode. Most other cars will engage manual mode as soon as you use a paddle.