BMW Dealership Damaged I7

[Venki9990]

Originally Posted by AlteBMW

75K down and 2.5k per month? That sound strange. Do you mean 7.5k?

Yup, 75k Its total amount due in CAD.

[Venki9990]

Originally Posted by mjr24

Agreed. Give them an ultimatum to buy it or tell them you are lawyering up.

Also, name this dealer.

They finally emailed me everything after 16 days, including the repair quote, which is like, 24k CAD. I asked them nicely to transfer the lease to another I7 with the same config. I called BMW again, but they weren't super helpful since they don't control the dealership.

[dubb13]

Originally Posted by BMW5and7

The reason they said it will be reported to CarFax is that they don’t want to pay anything themselves. They simply want to use their shop insurance company, and let their insurance cover the damages and costs.

In fact, they might even make a profit on this since their tech and team will be involved in doing some of the repair/diagnosis and provide parts.

I don’t think it’s fair for you to let them report it to CarFax. They should simply cover the repair without involving insurance to avoid reducing the value of the car. It’s an EV, so its value will drop significantly for anything that isn’t a clean Carfax report. If it goes to CarFax, the dealer and BMW should pay you on goodwill basis for all of that, and I’d demanad 10-15K and start from there, If I were in your shoes.

Well, it’s going through the shops insurance so they may not have a choice

[BMW5and7]

Originally Posted by dubb13

Well, it’s going through the shops insurance so they may not have a choice

No... They DO have a choice in fact. Their choices are:

1. NOT go through the insurance, fix it back to factory, and pay nothing to the owner as there is no depreciation
2. Go through the insurance, and pay the owner an equivalent/estimate for the depreciation value.

Both of these 2 options are equally fair to the owner. What is NOT fair is to go through the insurance, and let the 1st owner digest the depreciation for an accident/mistake he didn't do.

[dubb13]

Originally Posted by BMW5and7

No... They DO have a choice in fact. Their choices are:

1. NOT go through the insurance, fix it back to factory, and pay nothing to the owner as there is no depreciation
2. Go through the insurance, and pay the owner an equivalent/estimate for the depreciation value.

Both of these 2 options are equally fair to the owner. What is NOT fair is to go through the insurance, and let the 1st owner digest the depreciation for an accident/mistake he didn't do.

I guess I'm wondering like where's the money going to come from I don't think they have a surplus of money hanging around the dealership to fix repairs like this they're going to go through insurance

[Kmish]

Originally Posted by Venki9990

So, I leased the car, planning to buy it later. I put down 75k CAD and paying 2.5k PM, and now I'm totally lost. I already told the leasing company, too.

This will be the last time in your life you ever put down cap cost reduction on a lease. It’s never advisable to EVER reduce cap cost when you lease. Tough lesson to learn. Sorry.

[BMW5and7]

Originally Posted by dubb13

I guess I'm wondering like where's the money going to come from I don't think they have a surplus of money hanging around the dealership to fix repairs like this they're going to go through insurance

I’m not debating whether they should go through insurance or not, or whether they have money or not. My point is, regardless of these factors, they should stand by their mistake. The car owner shouldn’t absorb the depreciation. They should either pay for their mistake (depreciation equivelant), which will make the car ineligible for a clean carfax, or they should at least fix the car without going through insurance to avoid Carfax accident history the depreciation….

I’d rather see them going througn insurance, do it right, report it to Carfax, and pay the owner for all that hassle and for the depreciation. This way the 2nd/future owner also knows about the repair or car history.

[AlteBMW]

Originally Posted by Venki9990

Yup, 75k Its total amount due in CAD.

Total amount due and money up front (capital cost reduction) are different. If you paid 75K at the time of lease inception there is no way you could be paying 2.5k per month. If you did put down 75k as a capital cost reduction on a lease that calls for 2.5k per month, you were very badly hosed by this dealer and are getting hosed again.

[Venki9990]

Originally Posted by AlteBMW

Total amount due and money up front (capital cost reduction) are different. If you paid 75K at the time of lease inception there is no way you could be paying 2.5k per month. If you did put down 75k as a capital cost reduction on a lease that calls for 2.5k per month, you were very badly hosed by this dealer and are getting hosed again.

Okay, I am not able to find the revised agreement, as I believe it's in the car, but I am attaching the one which they emailed me. The only difference is I spotted a few additional charges, like they charged me for gasoline, even though it is fully EV, lol, and a few extra addon cosmetics which I deleted to bring the monthly lease to 2.5K. All the numbers here are in CAD.

[drbluedevil]

This might be an obvious question/answer, but if the OP is leasing AND if the OP does not intend to buy the vehicle off lease, then why care about the carfax and diminished value?

To me, one of the benefits of leasing is that if there's an accident, the lessee gets to just repair it and turn it back in and not worry about the long term consequences of body damage or value diminishment.

In this weird case, since the dealership is at fault and has removed your ability to use the vehicle that you're paying (a **LOT**) to use for at least 2 months (>5% of the total lease period), they should at least give you the same level of vehicle to use as a loaner in the interim. That or BMWNA can trade you into a similar lease in a similar vehicle. In the end, they have many ways to make this right for you.

[Venki9990]

Originally Posted by drbluedevil

This might be an obvious question/answer, but if the OP is leasing AND if the OP does not intend to buy the vehicle off lease, then why care about the carfax and diminished value?

To me, one of the benefits of leasing is that if there's an accident, the lessee gets to just repair it and turn it back in and not worry about the long term consequences of body damage or value diminishment.

In this weird case, since the dealership is at fault and has removed your ability to use the vehicle that you're paying (a **LOT**) to use for at least 2 months (>5% of the total lease period), they should at least give you the same level of vehicle to use as a loaner in the interim. That or BMWNA can trade you into a similar lease in a similar vehicle. In the end, they have many ways to make this right for you.

One of the reasons for paying heavy down is to buy the car at the end of the lease.

[drbluedevil]

Originally Posted by Venki9990

One of the reasons for paying heavy down is to buy the car at the end of the lease.

Ahh I missed that earlier on in the thread.

I'm sorry you had to go through all this; someone rammed the back of my 2022 iX, and the repair was originally estimated to take 2 months. That ultimately grew to 6 months without a clear end date (and nearly was at the end of the responsible party's insurance limit), so I just gave up and traded it for as-is value toward my current iX lease. Once that's done, I'm looking forward to just buying an i7, which is why I'm lurking on this forum.

As others have indicated, cap cost reduction puts money in jail to pay down a lease ahead of time and isn't really advantageous normally. It's commonly stated that you lose your cap cost reduction money to a lease if there's a loss, which objectively isn't true, because if there's a total loss, the insurance company typically pays the title holder (BMWFS in this case) for the FMV of the vehicle at the time of the total loss. Whatever you paid in excess of that number will come back to you (it's clearly stated in my BMWFS lease agreement). It's the reverse of the situation in which one can be underwater on the lease, especially with insane EV depreciation and the more typical zero cap cost reduction (hence GAP insurance). This isn't like buying points on a mortgage, which just prepays interest to reduce the monthly rate. Cap cost reduction prepays the total cost of the lease without affecting the money factor. So it might make some sense for you in your particular case in which you intended to buy the vehicle off-lease. Only problem is doing it functionally eliminates your ability to enjoy the major lease benefit of just walking away after the lease period without further consequence, because of how much you've paid in to the vehicle.

In any case, BMWNA can make this right either by trading you into a similar vehicle at a similar lease rate or getting you a similar vehicle as a loaner while they repair yours AND paying you an acceptable amount for diminished value at the time you buy out the lease. One option is to get a lease buyout price and see if they'll work with you on that.

From their standpoint, they're not obligated to do that right now, since you have the option to walk away from the lease at any point as long as you fulfill your agreed-upon payments. It'd be a bad idea, given what you've paid into it so far, but you retain that right nevertheless.

In any case, keep us updated....interested to see where this goes.

[Wolfman64]

I can’t believe my eyes looking at these terms. Maybe I am not reading this right.

The interest rate is insane and more so with that down payment.

Btw. There should be no down payment in case of a total loss. Thinking that there is a potential overage on an insurance payout of a high depreciation vehicle engages in wishful thinking.

[mjr24]

Sounds like this car is going to be a lesson to you. An expensive one.

10% interest on a lease, huh?

They charged you for gas but you just LOL at it? They are just LOL'ing at you. Good luck.

[AlteBMW]

OP also what is the 20k in "other" listed in the lease calculation. Whatever it is, it raised the total cost to something like 185k.

[florinant93]

Originally Posted by AlteBMW

OP also what is the 20k in "other" listed in the leased calculation. Whatever it is, it raised the total cost to something like 185k.

"Other" as in "how much more can we charge this guy without him realising?" kind of thing. That whole deal stinks.

[hufington]

Horrible damage and worrisome deal.

[Wolfman64]

Didn’t mean to ridicule the OP for this questionable lease deal but this looks like a perfect example where the forum community here can help save some serious money next time around.

Or hopefully now when getting this thing replaced

[Venki9990]

This is the other part; I don't think it's a bad deal. It has almost every upgrade, and they provided me a total discount of CAD25k.

Regarding the main topic, I am coordinating with the general manager and exploring the options for lease transfer, technically replacing the vehicle. I learned that 24k on Carfax would depreciate 40% of the car's value.

[SW17LS]

Gotta remember, thats Canada not the US...but that is deal that is so expensive its hard to wrap my head around it...

[InterlagosM3]

I have never bought a new car in Canada, but it looks like they are selling you every extra they can think of and then making up some additional ones. There has to me so much margin on those things that they are not going to lose a penny in this deal. Tell them that all you want is to replace the car and then if you really want some of those extras, you can have them done by a high-end detail shop for less.

[Venki9990]

Originally Posted by 2001S15

In my experience with BMW corporate they will jerk you around and delay until you bring in a lawyer. I have done this on 2 occasions for 2 different cars. Weeks/months of delay then a polite demand on legal letterhead and everything got better. YMMV I guess.

Hey, you're absolutely right. After almost 3 months, BMW Toronto simply returned my vehicle without any discussion of compensation. I've now initiated legal proceedings, so if you have any insights from your experience to share, I'd really appreciate it.

For anyone staying close to downtown: avoid BMW Toronto if you value your vehicle.