Ready to take the plunge (into Porsche)

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Which circles back to the cost of the warranty. If it's a few grand over 3 years then ok but my guess is $4K to $5K a year. Some of this is a cultural thing, I find US buyers love to be over insured for peace of mind.

That's because the USA is over-lawyered...

[Alfisti]

Yeah the JLR guys won't know these cars, needs someone who understands the issues these cars may have. TBH they are pretty reliable, there's only a few things to watch for and they are easily found if you know what to look for.

[XutvJet]

Congrats on the GT4. Two things to be aware of when owning a naturally aspirated mid engine Porsche and an F87.

1) The F87 will have likely turned you into a lazy driver. All that torque and wide powerband makes you short shift as you usually have plenty of power revving out to 4500rpms in all daily driving situations. The Cayman's power is in the upper range and when you dip into the throttle below 4500rpms, it can feel a little underwhelming. You really do have to rev these cars out. Point is, you have to drive the Cayman quite a bit differently, including not being afraid to hammer it in 1st or grab a downshift that might land you at 6000-6500rpms. Don't be afraid of it. The motor wants it.

2) As you become more comfy with the mid engine handling dynamics and pushing the Cayman harder, the CS is gonna start to feel like a wet noodle in comparison because you'll find the M2's at the limit dynamics are nothing like a properly sorted mid engine sports car. My M2 feels more like a well sorted muscle car in comparison to my Cayman which feels very alive, connected, and surgical.


I wouldn't lose too much sleep about not doing a PPI, if that was case. If the car is runs good and doesn't smoke, it's not having a bore score issue and that is wasted money looking for it. If your warranty is through Porsche, just be aware that they will claim "wear and tear" on most anything that is expendable, regardless of age or mileage.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

If the car is runs good and doesn't smoke, it's not having a bore score issue and that is wasted money looking for it.

I'll disagree here, if she's smoking the engine is already toast. You can see very, very early signs of future problems if there's faint lines on the cylinder walls. It's $350 of peace of mind on a $50K engine. In saying that, it's not a common issue at all on the engine in OP's car, it's just that it's catastrophic if it happens and so easy to check well before it shows symptoms.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I'll disagree here, if she's smoking the engine is already toast. You can see very, very early signs of future problems if there's faint lines on the cylinder walls. It's $350 of peace of mind on a $50K engine. In saying that, it's not a common issue at all on the engine in OP's car, it's just that it's catastrophic if it happens and so easy to check well before it shows symptoms.

The only way to effectively do a bore score inspection is by removing the oil pan and snaking the camera up to see the lower portion of the cylinders as scoring starts there. For some cylinders, this type of inspection is impossible. Additionally, this inspection would include an oil change and oil pan/sump gasket(s). It's far more expensive than $350.

Bore score in these cars is a rarity and when it does happen, it is swift as it's almost always the result of a failed DI injector that washes the cylinder clean of oil film and very quickly takes out the bore. This isn't a gradual thing like we see with M9X series motors. It is basically the same types of injector/bore failures we've seen on the B58 motors. Rare, but happens.

The biggest concern the 718 GT4 motor is the oil pump. There have been issues with them failing. When it happens, dead motor within minutes. Again, not a super common issue, but it's taken out several of these motors. Every motor has it's Achilles heal.

[vt100]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The only way to effectively do a bore score inspection is by removing the oil pan and snaking the camera up to see the lower portion of the cylinders as scoring starts there. For some cylinders, this type of inspection is impossible. Additionally, this inspection would include an oil change and oil pan/sump gasket(s). It's far more expensive than $350.

Bore score in these cars is a rarity and when it does happen, it is swift as it's almost always the result of a failed DI injector that washes the cylinder clean of oil film and very quickly takes out the bore. This isn't a gradual thing like we see with M9X series motors. It is basically the same types of injector/bore failures we've seen on the B58 motors. Rare, but happens.

The biggest concern the 718 GT4 motor is the oil pump. There have been issues with them failing. When it happens, dead motor within minutes. Again, not a super common issue, but it's taken out several of these motors. Every motor has it's Achilles heal.

Damn it! You guys keep scaring me .... I'll sell the Spyder and will buy a Miata instead

[bosstones]

It's hard to tell how much of the bore score talk these days is an extension of the lore imbued from increased instances in earlier model years. Although, I think it was fairly rare by the time of the 981and 991(.1)....it still worries me. Then again, my S54 has its own fun in rod bearings, which are arguably far less symptomatic before sadness ensues. So maybe I've just been numbed into acceptance of these strange, expensive, fatal engine flaws that I wouldn't have expected from these marques.

[Alfisti]

I just cannot shake the sickly feeling I had when i first took my car in for service to the local indy. There sat a lovely 991.1 with the same engine in my car (9A1 or something), just 42,000KM, he turns it on and slap/slap/slap/slap/slap. He said bore scoring, the owner had just bought the car, had a PPI done but didn't scope the engine and was out $40K for a fix.

[Tejas1836]

Not for the poors that’s for sure

[ShocknAwe]

Piston slap and bore scoring never squared with me. Lots of disagreement over whether bore scoring is really a problem except on a a couple notoriously problematic engines.

Another way to look at it is a scope will only tell you if you have these markings on your cylinders, not if it's an issue, and if you have them then the process has already started. So it doesn't really matter.

Enjoy the GT4 and don't lose sleep over it.

Awesome car. You'll enjoy your 2er when you drive it in a different way. I feel the same about my 1er.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I just cannot shake the sickly feeling I had when i first took my car in for service to the local indy. There sat a lovely 991.1 with the same engine in my car (9A1 or something), just 42,000KM, he turns it on and slap/slap/slap/slap/slap. He said bore scoring, the owner had just bought the car, had a PPI done but didn't scope the engine and was out $40K for a fix.

The PPI very likely wouldn't have saved that 991. DI injector failures are what can take those motors out and the damage happens within miles and days.

My 2011 Cayman base has the 2.9 liter 9A1 motor without DI. All other 9A1s have DI. Per the rebuilders, the 2.9 has no reported issues with bore score failure. With that said, knowing what I know now and if I could do it all over again, I would have bought an excellent condition 987.1 Cayman or 997.1 911 with a blown motor for $10K-20K and had someone like Slakker build me a 3.8-4.1 motor and I'd do the swap myself. For an engine swap, it's incredibly easy on these cars. It's as if Porsche has always planned for the motors to fail and be easily pulled

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by bosstones

It's hard to tell how much of the bore score talk these days is an extension of the lore imbued from increased instances in earlier model years. Although, I think it was fairly rare by the time of the 981and 991(.1)....it still worries me. Then again, my S54 has its own fun in rod bearings, which are arguably far less symptomatic before sadness ensues. So maybe I've just been numbed into acceptance of these strange, expensive, fatal engine flaws that I wouldn't have expected from these marques.

If Porsche would use steel liners, bore score wouldn't be much of an issue. The lack of true cylinder liners in the M96/97 and newer Porsche motors plus the fact that they use so many forged parts that expand at different temps compared to the block, as well as the flat design all contribute to the issue.

Porsche sits in an interesting spot in the sports car market. They provide cutting edge drivetrain performance tech and design while trying to offer reliability and longevity. That is all very difficult to achieve. Get one of these cars in the air, and it is impressive how robust everything is in the drivetrain and suspension. And you'll certainly pay a pretty penny to fix this stuff when it breaks.

The amount of money people pay dealers and independents to maintain and repairs their Porsche sports cars is pretty bonkers. BMW doesn't hold a candle to those costs.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

If Porsche would use steel liners, bore score wouldn't be much of an issue. The lack of true cylinder liners in the M96/97 and newer Porsche motors plus the fact that they use so many forged parts that expand at different temps compared to the block, as well as the flat design all contribute to the issue.

Porsche sits in an interesting spot in the sports car market. They provide cutting edge drivetrain performance tech and design while trying to offer reliability and longevity. That is all very difficult to achieve. Get one of these cars in the air, and it is impressive how robust everything is in the drivetrain and suspension. And you'll certainly pay a pretty penny to fix this stuff when it breaks.

The amount of money people pay dealers and independents to maintain and repairs their Porsche sports cars is pretty bonkers. BMW doesn't hold a candle to those costs.

Back when I was first looking at buying an older roadster this is what ultimately pushed me away from a Boxster or Cayman (though it's obviously not a roadster) – I just decided that I couldn't stomach Porsche repair prices. It's perhaps a defect in my personality, but I think that waiting for that shoe to drop, whether a realistic concern or not, would've limited my enjoyment of the car and made me more hesitant to put miles on it. At the end of the day, it just didn't feel like it was worth it to me.