718 Porsche concerns.

[BlkGS]

Just because you have had a lot of cars doesn't mean you know a damn thing about them.

You can think what you want about my motivations. I'm just saying that German cars are the only.onesnwith issues like this. And it's absolutely an engineering choice. Part of the reason German cars feel "wore out" is the composition of their bushings. American and Japanese brands tend to use a firm rubber that will last decades, in most cases the life of the vehicle. BMW specifically (probably the others as well) uses a fluid filled bushing that's softer. Why? Because it rides better and adds dampening in the bushing. It is partly responsible for that feeling of "plantedness" that new German cars have, but it's also WAY less reliable, and it's VERY common for those to leak just outside of warranty on a German car. I saw it all the time on X5s, and other larger BMWs. It's an engineering trade off to be less reliable and require more upkeep and money to keep them going at as normal.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by vt100

If the Corvette has been parked outside all 8 years?! Highly doubt it will be like new... and actually doubt it will run smooth
And the main issue with this boxster on video is the water damage, everything else is quite expected. But man, this is a convertible for gods sake, check even on this forum how many post we have here about leaking Z4 roofs
Now.. are you trying to tell us that Chevy can make more reliable convertibles?!


C6 2012 is like new?! Sorry, but I can't and don't believe that I've driven some and no, they don't drive like new for many reasons (I love C6 Z06 but chose my current Z4MC just because it gives me much more fun on regular streets and has got a much more precise steering)
Even if you've never driven yours, it will still put lots of stress on the car by itself (but very different kind of stress vs if you'd be driving it hard).

But for C5 - how many times did you change suspension within this 145kmiles? If you track it hard I really doubt it'd happened only once And not a single bushing has failed?!

I will admit I didn't watch the full video, and thought it was a Cayman. I was very confused why a hardtop had drain tubes, but I will concede that if you park anything with drain tubes, convertible or moonroof, outside under a tree you will have issues with those drain getting clogged. You're getting debris in those tubes all the damn time and probably not getting enough water flow to actually clear the drains, or worse yet you're just building up a plug of dirt, detritus, and sap that will block drainage.

My C6 looks and drives like new. To be fair, it's got like... 16k miles or something low like that. But so did this Porsche. It's tight, no noises (it has always had one noise in the B pillar, it's the slightest little vibration, likely fixed with a little sticky felt, but I've never pulled the panel off to fix it). Even after a track day at Sebring, no problems.

The C4 track car.... That one rattles bad lol, but I can't hear it over the loud ass exhaust so it's ok. When I got it (with like 130k miles or so?) I went through almost the whole suspension and redid it. Partially this was upgrades, partially upkeep. To be fair, it was like 25 years old. It already had Koni adjustable shocks on it (for a long time it seemed based on how dirty they were - still on, still fine), and I replaced the springs and sway bars with the performance upgrade ones. Then later on I swapped all the old rubber bushings for polyurethane. I would say like 40% of the bushings I took out were worn and cracked. Since then (probably 10 years ago now) I haven't had to touch the suspension (though I keep wanting to replace the shocks with double adjustable ones... I can't get the tuning on the Konis right for myself, and the adjustment knobs are a real.paon in the ass to reach). Admittedly, the car is "down" right now as one of the cats has developed a rattle. That's going to be resolved with long tube headers.

[MisanoblueZ4]

Porsche defense team in full deployment here lol.

BMW needs this on Rennlist

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The thing is... You CAN expect this out of a domestic sports car. Jump in a low mile Corvette of that age and it'll be like new. Hell, my C6 is a 2012 and it performs like new, with nothing wearing out. My 1992 vette, not as much, because it's a got 145k miles and so I replaced all the wear items because it's a track car.

A Camaro, Mustang, Corvette, Challenger, Viper... All these cars you can absolutely expect to hold up like a Camry, and most of them are going to outperform the same year Porsches at the same time. A Nissan Z or most Japanese sports cars (sadly those are all but gone) is the same way. So performance cars don't have to equal reliability nightmares with constant expensive upkeep, the Germans just haven't figured out how to do that. Or, more likely in my mind, they know their customers are suckers and will pay for extra upkeep, and that's a big revenue stream, so they have no reason to improve it, because they have an army of owners who will come to defend them when someone is like "wow that's pretty lame that so much stuff goes wrong".

That's a blanket statement that just isn't true. I've seen plenty of neglected, low-mileage Corvettes. I'd argue Corvettes are some of the worst-maintained performance cars. A simple stroll on Corvette forum will show all the threads about "garage queens" on 12-yr-old tires and original fluids.

I see a ton of old BMWs and Porsches running around my areas, so they must be doing ok. People just complain when they don't take care of it & then it breaks. Must be that damn crappy (insert european auto manufacturer) engineering.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Part of the reason German cars feel "wore out" is the composition of their bushings. American and Japanese brands tend to use a firm rubber that will last decades, in most cases the life of the vehicle. BMW specifically (probably the others as well) uses a fluid filled bushing that's softer. Why? Because it rides better and adds dampening in the bushing. It is partly responsible for that feeling of "plantedness" that new German cars have, but it's also WAY less reliable, and it's VERY common for those to leak just outside of warranty on a German car. I saw it all the time on X5s, and other larger BMWs. It's an engineering trade off to be less reliable and require more upkeep and money to keep them going at as normal.

This is largely true. German cars do tend to use compliant, softer bushings and they do tend to age faster. Regarding fluid-filled bushings, not a ton of them are fluid filled. Typically it's just the engine mounts, diff, trans, and/or or maybe a main control arm. Thing is, LOTS of non-German automakers do the same and they too split open and leak in around 10 years/100-150K. The German cars may just do it sooner.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The thing is... You CAN expect this out of a domestic sports car. Jump in a low mile Corvette of that age and it'll be like new. Hell, my C6 is a 2012 and it performs like new, with nothing wearing out. My 1992 vette, not as much, because it's a got 145k miles and so I replaced all the wear items because it's a track car.

When shopping for a fun car, I was originally dead set on a 2003-2004 C5 Z06. I absolutely love them. I looked at them for at least year and asking prices were hilarious for well maintained ones and many of those were showing a lot of age on the interiors, seals, etc. I spoke with a friend that owns a ton of cars including a SC'd 1000hp+ 2001 Z06, a Viper ACR, 997.2 911 base done up to look like a GT3, SC'd 600hp S2000, and a few other amazing cars and trucks. I told him my concerns about the C5 Z06. He said, absolutely, and then rattled off a ton of other crap that can go wrong with them and how finding many parts like weather seals and certain electronics is becoming nearly impossible and gets worse by the year as those new and used parts get gobbled up. He then asked "Taking the performance out of the equation, would you really be happy with the Tonka interior and 1990s GM engineering over the long term? Go sit in that 911 and take note of that build quality." I told him it too was a concern about the Z06 but that I couldn't afford a 997.2 911. He said, why not a 987.2 Cayman base 6MT? It has over 60% of the parts and panels from the 997.2 and it's in the same price range of the Z06s you're looking at (lower 30s). It's a lot slower in the straight line, but on B roads or short tracks, it's not going to measurably slower. And then he said, you can buy most any part for a 1990s+ Porsche and in many cases, 1/3-1/2 price if you get the OEM vs Porsche branded one. I was sold that day.

[Alfisti]

C6 man, I get there is this nostalgic love for them and with a few tweaks are insane fast but FMD that interior is like it's from the 70's and the driving experience with the hood in another zip code in front of you .... yeah hard pass.

[25 V8 IS]

I bought a Lexus so I don't have to worry for the next 20 years... Right?

[RM7]

C7 is the first with an acceptable cockpit IMO

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by RM7

C7 is the first with an acceptable cockpit IMO

Still cheap GM materials. Hasn't changed with the C8 either. I've covered nearly all the interior plastics in my C6 Z06 with Alcantara & replaced the fake carbon fiber consoles & gauge cluster with real cf. Makes a big difference

[MisanoblueZ4]

Originally Posted by RM7

C7 is the first with an acceptable cockpit IMO

Read up on dashboard delamination and armrest deformation. Big problem on C7’s, left outside the sun does a number on it.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

That's a blanket statement that just isn't true. I've seen plenty of neglected, low-mileage Corvettes. I'd argue Corvettes are some of the worst-maintained performance cars. A simple stroll on Corvette forum will show all the threads about "garage queens" on 12-yr-old tires and original fluids.

I see a ton of old BMWs and Porsches running around my areas, so they must be doing ok. People just complain when they don't take care of it & then it breaks. Must be that damn crappy (insert european auto manufacturer) engineering.

My C6 is one of those, lol. It gets clutch fluid and brake fluid, but I see no reason to drain out differential fluid that gives no issues and has low use. And you're 100% right, a TON of them are like mine. But the big difference is that doesn't matter, because they all still work. We both know that we see more issues on Corvette Forum from people with old batteries than old fluids, lol.

I see a lot of older German cars here too, but only the "enthusiast" ones. I couldn't tell you the last time I saw an old ML320 for example. On the other hand, I see late 90s/early 00s Tahoe's regularly. German cars do require more upkeep, and eventually that leads to people junking them. How many people are going to pay for expensive service on a normal traffic 328i? Very few.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

Still cheap GM materials. Hasn't changed with the C8 either. I've covered nearly all the interior plastics in my C6 Z06 with Alcantara & replaced the fake carbon fiber consoles & gauge cluster with real cf. Makes a big difference

I agree. The C7 interior really is no better, it looks like a version of my C4's interior and is VERY "of the times". And unlike the C6 interior, it's all integrated, so you can't update it as easy.

I've had a set of leather HUD button surrounds in my eBay cart for like... 5+ years lol. Maybe longer. I put it in my eBay cart back when you had your GS. Just haven't pulled the trigger on it (largely because I don't drive the car all that much).

[RM7]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I agree. The C7 interior really is no better, it looks like a version of my C4's interior and is VERY "of the times". And unlike the C6 interior, it's all integrated, so you can't update it as easy.

I've had a set of leather HUD button surrounds in my eBay cart for like... 5+ years lol. Maybe longer. I put it in my eBay cart back when you had your GS. Just haven't pulled the trigger on it (largely because I don't drive the car all that much).

There is no freaking way your plastic c4 interior is comparable on any level. Lets go there, post some interior shots.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by RM7

There is no freaking way your plastic c4 interior is comparable on any level. Lets go there, post some interior shots.

I'm gonna be honest, I didn't think that was even going to be a discussion, but sure.



Materials are different, sure. The C7 uses plastic/vinyl made to look like leather a bit more convincingly. They use fake stitched material instead of obvious vinyls now. The tech is a bit more modern, but they look damn near identical.

My C4 in particular is a giant POS race car, so it has a very not nice interior, but that's because it's a disposable race car. I can't usually hear the rattles over the loud ass exhaust. If I can, the stereo is really loud too, lol.

[RM7]

Haha, not even close

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by RM7

Haha, not even close

You're either blind or delusional. They're the same design.

That's like saying every generation of 911 looks totally different with no shared design.

[G30M]

i've parked my 2007 Toyota people mover outdoors since day 1, drove it through multiple floods (deep enought to flood the boot floor) and it's nearly 20 years old and there is no rust anywhere and I'm not sure how it still works.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by RM7

Haha, not even close

Originally Posted by BlkGS

You're either blind or delusional. They're the same design.

That's like saying every generation of 911 looks totally different with no shared design.

They are nearly the exact same design. Some people just always think newer is better, and with Corvettes, one this is consistent - cheap interior materials.

[M5Rick]

Well then hope your Corvettes and Lexus's continue to give trouble free motoring.
Here's is another one to whet your appetite about this same knowledgeable indy reducing a massive £££ main dealer fix estimate on a 997 twin turbo for a more reasonable price with turbo repair rather than replace when a CEL strikes and car goes into limp mode.

[Jackson Chen]

Proper skincare is quite important

[M5Rick]

Going back to the original issue of blocked drain vents I mentioned in my starter post, that can lead to what this 718 suffered, it may suit some who have no choice but to park in places where tree leaves and garden debris with dirt gets blown onto cars with the rain topping it off to actually block off the drain ingress with some finely cut clear weatherproof tape. I had water ingress into the passenger floor on mine and rather than working on difficult and awkward to remove things the floor is now bone dry after even torrential rain.