O2 sensor responsible for P0171?

[750iClown]

Originally Posted by M_Bimmer

Did you drive around after clearing the "soft" codes? And these are the only two "hard" codes left?

BTW, I'd pull the negative terminal on your battery, let it sit for a few minutes, then reconnect the ground wire to the battery. Run ISTA, clear all the codes. Take the car for a short spin, then post the BMW version of the emission codes.

I have not driven since clearing the soft codes. What you see pictured is what's left after clearing codes, see pics above. I will pull the negative terminal and try all that. I will say that when i previously cleared the codes and drove it, I drove it for almost 40 minutes and then let it sit, no codes. That's when I got excited and thought the P0171 was gone got good. Then the next day I drove it and the lean mixture came up after like 2 minutes.

[750iClown]

Originally Posted by M_Bimmer

If you pop your trunk, and access your battery compartment, there should be an aerial module mounted just in front of the battery...is it plugged in? If you address this module, your 2nd code may go away.

In the off chance that I miss guided you, feel free to select the code set in ISTA and run the Test Plan against that code.

I circled the rear aerial in the photo:

Interesting! Look what I found in the battery compartment. The white plastic piece that you circled is in my trunk but the electronic module that's supposed to be mounted inside of it is not there. Also, I noticed the battery vent tube was disconnected. I reconnected it and drove the vehicle tonight. No CEL since I cleared faults yesterday, so we'll see what comes up by tomorrow. Any insight into this new info as well as that missing part in the plastic mount?

[M_Bimmer]

Originally Posted by 750iClown

Interesting! Look what I found in the battery compartment. The white plastic piece that you circled is in my trunk but the electronic module that's supposed to be mounted inside of it is not there. Also, I noticed the battery vent tube was disconnected. I reconnected it and drove the vehicle tonight. No CEL since I cleared faults yesterday, so we'll see what comes up by tomorrow. Any insight into this new info as well as that missing part in the plastic mount?

Not sure if you added photos, but none showed up in your post....

I'd look for the two wire in your trunk area circled in the photo below...and if it does not have an Aerial on it, then you can find one off eBay for a good price ($15'ish), or you can get them from a BMW dealer fairly cheap ($50'ish). P/N 65209220832.

This aerial is for your comfort access.

[M_Bimmer]

Originally Posted by 750iClown

....and drove the vehicle tonight. No CEL since I cleared faults yesterday, so we'll see what comes up by tomorrow.[/IMG]

When the CEL light goes off, hook up ISTA, pull the codes and post a screen grab....but before you shutdown ISTA, select the code and run the Test Plan. Let's see what it tells you.

Cheers.

[750iClown]

Originally Posted by M_Bimmer

Not sure if you added photos, but none showed up in your post....

I'd look for the two wire in your trunk area circled in the photo below...and if it does not have an Aerial on it, then you can find one off eBay for a good price ($15'ish), or you can get them from a BMW dealer fairly cheap ($50'ish). P/N 65209220832.

This aerial is for your comfort access.

Just added photos correctly through my dropbox.

[M_Bimmer]

I'd fish around for loose wires....and would take a look at the one I have arrows pointing to:

[750iClown]

Originally Posted by M_Bimmer

I'd fish around for loose wires....and would take a look at the one I have arrows pointing to:

Ok, and FYI, CEL came back on driving home tonight.

[750iClown]

Originally Posted by M_Bimmer

I'd fish around for loose wires....and would take a look at the one I have arrows pointing to:

You were right, it was that wire. I pulled the component up from behind the battery by pulling that wire. I then clipped it into the white plastic piece and mounted it where it needs to go. See pic below. I wonder if being behind the battery like that can cause thee faults we saw.

[Raimo5]

Originally Posted by 750iClown

I wonder if being behind the battery like that can cause thee faults we saw.

Plug in with ISTA and see if error is still there. I would think it is, because if it was connected the whole time, then problem most likely is that aerial or wiring is damaged. It happens when dumb mechanics remove the battery, then try to reinstall it without removing aerial bracket first. They smash the battery in and drag the aerial beneath it and damage parts in the process. This aerial is responsible for detecting keys in the luggage compartment. Does your comfort access even work?

Also, what are those custom wires hooked up to the battery? On-vehicle battery charging should be carried out via terminals under the bonnet.

[750iClown]

Originally Posted by Raimo5

Clearing the codes gets rid of old and useless ones. It's basically decluttering the hit list and to see what immediately pops back up so we can focus on those.

To be honest, I dont know if ISTA will run a vehicle check after codes are deleted. Once the PAD mode is reactivated, it only takes seconds to finish the operation which makes me think that complete vehicle check is not automatically performed. Might be worthwhile to press that button so ISTA will run or trigger self diagnosis on all the modules.

Mixture control codes can be trickier as these might only pop up during operation. Permanent SAE codes wont be cleared before root issue is rectified, system passes self diagnosis and initiates healing counter.



I hear you mate. I like to do all the work I can do myself as well. It gives you great insight to vehicle and helps you better understand operational characteristics and faults in the future.

Originally Posted by Raimo5

Plug in with ISTA and see if error is still there. I would think it is, because if it was connected the whole time, then problem most likely is that aerial or wiring is damaged. It happens when dumb mechanics remove the battery, then try to reinstall it without removing aerial bracket first. They smash the battery in and drag the aerial beneath it and damage parts in the process. This aerial is responsible for detecting keys in the luggage compartment. Does your comfort access even work?

Also, what are those custom wires hooked up to the battery? On-vehicle battery charging should be carried out via terminals under the bonnet.

I think the aerial issue may still exist (see codes and tree below), but I have not started the car since I pulled it from behind the battery, clipped it, and mounted it. Could the code still exist because the car needs to be started to assure that? I am running through the test process suggested by ISTA. Will the test process not be as thorough if not hooked up to the vehicle? No fault codes have been erased btw, as seen in the images below. When you say "does your comfort access even work?", what would I not see functioning? It seems like everything works, but what specifically would I see issues with?

[750iClown]

Originally Posted by Raimo5

Plug in with ISTA and see if error is still there. I would think it is, because if it was connected the whole time, then problem most likely is that aerial or wiring is damaged. It happens when dumb mechanics remove the battery, then try to reinstall it without removing aerial bracket first. They smash the battery in and drag the aerial beneath it and damage parts in the process. This aerial is responsible for detecting keys in the luggage compartment. Does your comfort access even work?

Also, what are those custom wires hooked up to the battery? On-vehicle battery charging should be carried out via terminals under the bonnet.

One of the things I have been thinking about doing is a smoke test. I can get a cheap one for 10 bucks but I don't know where to hook up the tube from it on this vehicle. Do you know where I can connect a smoke tester supply line on this engine?

[Raimo5]

Originally Posted by 750iClown

I think the aerial issue may still exist (see codes and tree below), but I have not started the car since I pulled it from behind the battery, clipped it, and mounted it. Could the code still exist because the car needs to be started to assure that? I am running through the test process suggested by ISTA. Will the test process not be as thorough if not hooked up to the vehicle? No fault codes have been erased btw, as seen in the images below. When you say "does your comfort access even work?", what would I not see functioning? It seems like everything works, but what specifically would I see issues with?

When working with electronic diagnostics equipment, it is vital to examine the fault conditions, understand the variables and system specifics. One must also take time to familiarize themselves with the diagnostics equipment to make most efficient use of it.

For luggage compartment aerial, 'existent' tag no longer shows 'yes', but 'no'. To me it indicates that this problem is resolved. I was wondering if any of comfort access functions were working, or was only luggage compartment lid with car locking function out of order. Many errors do not clear automatically, but initiate a logistics counter. This will start counting down every vehicle start where error has not occurred, and if it reaches zero, then error is erased automatically. Other errors might not even have that and can only be erased with diagnostics equipment.

What I would like to focus on now is the most pressing issue of lean running conditions. We can address other faults in there later on or in a separate thread; just to keep our focus on issue at hand.

Now, if you calculate a test plan for mixture control and run through it's initial steps, where does it lead you? I see that you mentioned you are already running through this service module. If it is information based service module only, then you can run it all off the vehicle. If it has some interaction with the car then it can only be launched when connected to vehicle. At any point, if service module requires connection to vehicle then you will be made known of it via the module itself.

Originally Posted by 750iClown

One of the things I have been thinking about doing is a smoke test. I can get a cheap one for 10 bucks but I don't know where to hook up the tube from it on this vehicle. Do you know where I can connect a smoke tester supply line on this engine?

Where can you get one so cheap? I hope it's not a sarin gas machine. I would have to study the intake runs of your particular engine a bit. It's not like the old cars where there were no restrictions along the whole intake run. With these engines, one must make sure that air and smoke can actually pass to all parts that need testing.

[750iClown]

Originally Posted by Raimo5

When working with electronic diagnostics equipment, it is vital to examine the fault conditions, understand the variables and system specifics. One must also take time to familiarize themselves with the diagnostics equipment to make most efficient use of it.

For luggage compartment aerial, 'existent' tag no longer shows 'yes', but 'no'. To me it indicates that this problem is resolved. I was wondering if any of comfort access functions were working, or was only luggage compartment lid with car locking function out of order. Many errors do not clear automatically, but initiate a logistics counter. This will start counting down every vehicle start where error has not occurred, and if it reaches zero, then error is erased automatically. Other errors might not even have that and can only be erased with diagnostics equipment.

What I would like to focus on now is the most pressing issue of lean running conditions. We can address other faults in there later on or in a separate thread; just to keep our focus on issue at hand.

Now, if you calculate a test plan for mixture control and run through it's initial steps, where does it lead you? I see that you mentioned you are already running through this service module. If it is information based service module only, then you can run it all off the vehicle. If it has some interaction with the car then it can only be launched when connected to vehicle. At any point, if service module requires connection to vehicle then you will be made known of it via the module itself.



Where can you get one so cheap? I hope it's not a sarin gas machine. I would have to study the intake runs of your particular engine a bit. It's not like the old cars where there were no restrictions along the whole intake run. With these engines, one must make sure that air and smoke can actually pass to all parts that need testing.

So I can tell you this about the aerial since I've done some reading on comfort access and all that and now understand what that refers to. Previously, approaching the vehicle did not seem to activate the lights, and the unlock feature did not work when I placed my hand inside the door handle. That all now works. I'm not sure if approaching the car had not previously activated comfort access, but it now works like I said. I do recall the hand inside the door handle not unlocking the vehicle (which works now).

As far as the smoke test, Walmart online and other places sell a type of "bellows" contraption w an input tube that sucks on a cigarette, and an output tube supply line that you connect to your vehicle. I can post a link to it if you'd like. I figure for that cheap it might be worth doing an immediate smoke test to rule that out, what do you think? My only question is, where do I hook up that small-diameter tube on this intake system? The machine ones that I've seen on Amazon and elsewhere have a large cone-shaped end that go right into the large-hole intake on the engine, essentially creating an air-tight seal as it pumps smoke into the engine.

Adding this as an edit to my post.... I have seen a YouTube video where a dude wrapped a rubber work glove to the large air intake and poked a hole in one of the fingers, inserted the smoke tube and used a zip tie to seal that and another zip tie where it wrapped around the intake.

[750iClown]

Originally Posted by M_Bimmer

I'd fish around for loose wires....and would take a look at the one I have arrows pointing to:

I wanted to make sure I include you in responses, don't want to lose your input haha! Anyway, at this point with all the extensive reading I've done on Mixture Control and air/fuel ratio I've reached a predictive conclusion. Since it's only one bank that's acting up, I believe it's not a fuel delivery issue, otherwise we'd prob see this in bank 2 as well. So, I think it's one of the following:

• bad fuel injector(s) in bank 1
• air leak in air intake system
• bad bank 1 O2 sensor (prob pre-cat)
• *** I think it's this one based on instances where water comes in through intake- bad MAF (I think on this engine its called a Hot Film Sensor?) Where is this located?

Thoughts?

[M_Bimmer]

Originally Posted by 750iClown

....- bad MAF (I think on this engine its called a Hot Film Sensor?) Where is this located?

I don't think your N63 engine variant has a Hot Film Air Mass Sensor.....

Here is what I pulled from TIS:

Intake air temperature sensor
An intake air temperature sensor is usually integrated into the hot film air mass meter. The hot film air mass meter is omitted for various motorisations.

Note!
The hot film air mass meter has already been omitted for various engines. The volumetric efficiency is calculated by the engine control from different signals using a model.

In some country-specific engine versions an intake air temperature sensor is installed instead of the hot film air mass meter! Observe the Electronic Parts Catalogue and the wiring diagram!

The intake air temperature sensor detects the temperature of the fresh air compressed by the exhaust turbocharger and cooled by the charge air cooler.

Functional description
A temperature-dependent electrical resistor is used for temperature sensing. The circuit contains a voltage divider where the resistance can be measured depending on the temperature. A temperature is converted using a characteristic curve specific to the sensor. An NTC resistor (NTC) is installed in the charge-air temperature sensor, whose resistance value drops when the temperature increases. The resistance changes from approx. 106 kΩ to 33 Ω depending on temperature, which corresponds to a temperature of -45 °C to 160 °C.

[Raimo5]

Do codes 118001 and 118101 both indicate same bank?

What I would do at this point is swap pre-cat O2 sensors between bank 1 and 2 to see if error follows the probe.

[750iClown]

Originally Posted by Raimo5

Do codes 118001 and 118101 both indicate same bank?

What I would do at this point is swap pre-cat O2 sensors between bank 1 and 2 to see if error follows the probe.

That's prob a great idea. On that note, do you know where I can find part numbers? I don't want to start throwing money by purchasing parts willy nilly, but I have been giving serious thought to replacing that O2 sensor on bank 1.

Regarding the MAF sensor on that side, I need to find out what this engine uses to measure air on that side since apparently this doesn't have a MAF. I gotta imagine that part was damaged by the ingested H2O. Bimmer did send that info up above about an air temp sensor doing the work for that, so maybe I need to look for that?

[Raimo5]

Originally Posted by 750iClown

That's prob a great idea. On that note, do you know where I can find part numbers? I don't want to start throwing money by purchasing parts willy nilly, but I have been giving serious thought to replacing that O2 sensor on bank 1.

Regarding the MAF sensor on that side, I need to find out what this engine uses to measure air on that side since apparently this doesn't have a MAF. I gotta imagine that part was damaged by the ingested H2O. Bimmer did send that info up above about an air temp sensor doing the work for that, so maybe I need to look for that?

You can find part numbers from different online BMW parts catalogues like realoem and likes. These are all dated 12/2019, though, so there might be some changes to product codes that are not reflected in those databases. Usually, they are pretty accurate and reliable. There was a site - bmw-etk.info, that seemed to have up to date databases, but it has apparently ceased to exist.

If it was me, I would just go ahead and replace the temperature sensor, both MAP sensors and both pre-cat O2 sensors. It's just that I dont have confidence that these sensors are accurate enough after water injection. Even if sensors themselves dont throw internal error codes then they still can be out of normal operating range. For me, it would be worth it as these sensors wont cost much and I would buy myself some peace of mind. Pre-cat O2 sensors you have to replace at some point anyway, and when you do, you always want to change them in pairs, not just one bank.

As M_Bimmer stated, you dont have MAF sensors. Kind of makes sense to omit those from vehicles. They really aren't needed anymore because very accurate information can be estimated using manifold pressure and calculation models in DME. Especially considering EGR and valvetronic systems, mass flow measurements would not be particularly meaningful anyway.

[M_Bimmer]

G12 07.2021 Parts Catalog:

https://www.bmw-etk.info/parts-catal...2021/07/60508/

Intake Temp Sensor P/N: 13628626176 Qty 1 ($72.31 each)

Manifold Pressure Sensor P/N: 13628644432 Qty 2 ($96.38 each)

Regulating Lambda Probe (Pre-Cat) P/N: 11787935100 Qty 2 ($243.19 each)

Monitoring Lambda Probe (Post-Cat) P/N: 11787935101 Qty 2 ($196.26 each)

[750iClown]

Originally Posted by M_Bimmer

G12 07.2021 Parts Catalog:

https://www.bmw-etk.info/parts-catal...2021/07/60508/

Intake Temp Sensor P/N: 13628626176 Qty 1 ($72.31 each)

Manifold Pressure Sensor P/N: 13628644432 Qty 2 ($96.38 each)

Regulating Lambda Probe (Pre-Cat) P/N: 11787935100 Qty 2 ($243.19 each)

Monitoring Lambda Probe (Post-Cat) P/N: 11787935101 Qty 2 ($196.26 each)

Thanks so much to both of you for the info. Why do those items say "quantity 2" for 3 of the 4 of them? I need 2 of each of those???

[M_Bimmer]

Originally Posted by 750iClown

Thanks so much to both of you for the info. Why do those items say "quantity 2" for 3 of the 4 of them? I need 2 of each of those???

There is only Qty 1 for your Engine:
- Intake Temp Sensor P/N: 13628626176 Qty 1 ($72.31 each)

There are a Qty 2 for your Engine (Left & Right use the same P/N):
- Left Manifold Pressure Sensor P/N: 13628644432 Qty 1 ($96.38 each)
- Right Manifold Pressure Sensor P/N: 13628644432 Qty 1 ($96.38 each)

There are a Qty 2 for your Engine (Left & Right use the same P/N):
- Left, Pre-Cat Regulating Lambda Probe P/N: 11787935100 Qty 1 ($243.19 each)
- Right, Pre-Cat Regulating Lambda Probe P/N: 11787935100 Qty 1 ($243.19 each)

There are a Qty 2 for your Engine (Left & Right use the same P/N):
- Left, Post-Cat Monitoring Lambda Probe P/N: 11787935101 Qty 1 ($196.26 each)
- Right, Post-CAT Monitoring Lambda Probe P/N: 11787935101 Qty 1 ($196.26 each)

Let me know if this is clearer.

Cheers.

[750iClown]

Originally Posted by M_Bimmer

There is only Qty 1 for your Engine:
- Intake Temp Sensor P/N: 13628626176 Qty 1 ($72.31 each)

There are a Qty 2 for your Engine (Left & Right use the same P/N):
- Left Manifold Pressure Sensor P/N: 13628644432 Qty 1 ($96.38 each)
- Right Manifold Pressure Sensor P/N: 13628644432 Qty 1 ($96.38 each)

There are a Qty 2 for your Engine (Left & Right use the same P/N):
- Left, Pre-Cat Regulating Lambda Probe P/N: 11787935100 Qty 1 ($243.19 each)
- Right, Pre-Cat Regulating Lambda Probe P/N: 11787935100 Qty 1 ($243.19 each)

There are a Qty 2 for your Engine (Left & Right use the same P/N):
- Left, Post-Cat Monitoring Lambda Probe P/N: 11787935101 Qty 1 ($196.26 each)
- Right, Post-CAT Monitoring Lambda Probe P/N: 11787935101 Qty 1 ($196.26 each)

Let me know if this is clearer.

Cheers.

Much thanks for that. I thought the Lambda ending in 100 was one of the pre-cat (bank 2), and 101 was bank 1. Glad you clarified. I'm thinking of just doing the two pre-cat sensors (11787935100), then see if that fixes the problem. Next, if that doesn't fix it, then do the left and right Manifold Pressure sensors, then the intake temp sensor, and last the 2 post-cat sensors.