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      02-27-2021, 12:50 PM   #23
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This has never bothered me, so it's weird why you guys care so much. I simply ignore and look right through people who have nothing to do with me.
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      02-27-2021, 01:18 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMSport View Post
Whatever, man. To each his own.
Not really.

M Sport is a package, M is a series. 440i M Sport means that the car is a 440i and has the additional package, which mostly includes cosmetic updates.


Built at completely different factories, with different intent
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      02-27-2021, 01:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRussski View Post
Not really.

M Sport is a package, M is a series. 440i M Sport means that the car is a 440i and has the additional package, which mostly includes cosmetic updates.


Built at completely different factories, with different intent
Who said anything about "M Sport" package? As an example, the M340i and M440i are not packages, they are legit cars with full on performance upgrades. Having the B58 engine with 6-cylinders and 382hp is not a "package". The regular 330i has a 4 banger and on a different level altogether.

As I stated at the beginning, these are categorized under the M Performance class. Not to be confused with M sport class, period. Something tells me you have no understanding of the aforementioned models I reference.
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      02-27-2021, 01:52 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMSport View Post
Who said anything about "M Sport" package? As an example, the M340i and M440i are not packages, they are legit cars with full on performance upgrades. Having the B58 engine with 6-cylinders and 382hp is not a "package". The regular 330i has a 4 banger and on a different level altogether.

As I stated at the beginning, these are categorized under the M Performance class. Not to be confused with M sport class, period. Something tells me you have no understanding of the aforementioned models I reference.
Same concept...just like people comparing M Performace to real M Division cars.

Totally different levels
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      02-27-2021, 02:02 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRussski View Post
Same concept...just like people comparing M Performace to real M Division cars.

Totally different levels
No, it's not the same concept. Why did you refer to these models as packages?
Who is doing the comparing? It's usually insecure "M" car owners that seem threatened for some odd reason.
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      02-27-2021, 02:43 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMSport View Post
It uses a lot of the M division's stuff though and it's also not a standard 3er.

Does it actually offend you when you see cars like an M340i or M440i? How about an M550i?
It seems to me that BMW's rear wheel drive "M Performance" cars (M240i, M340i,...) are pretty much what BMW's old rear wheel drive ZSP Sport Package cars (with sport-tuned suspensions) used to be, but the xDrive models have "SAV" suspensions.

My real M-car, a 2004 E46 M3 Coupe, with its special S54B32 engine, special Getrag gearbox, special clutch-type limited slip differential, special suspension, etc. has 17 M badges.

My fake M-car, a 2021 M240i, has 15 M badges. Most egregious of them all is the M badge on the plastic cover of the stock B58 engine. The M badges on the brake calipers are ridiculous too, especially when considering that the E46 M3 doesn't even have M badges on its brake calipers... Adding insult to injury, customers can't even order a proper limited slip differential as a factory option on the M240i, M340i, etc. For reference, My $25k 2020 Honda Civic SI Sedan came STANDARD with a helical limited slip differential (at 1/2 the price of my M240i)! This indicates to me that BMW isn't too serious about the actual performance of their "M Performance" line of cars...

Anyway. I like my M240i (with the dealer installed M Performance clutch-type limited slip differential), I think its a nice car, and I'm glad that BMW is still producing a few cars like it these days. I also think the adaptive sport suspension in the car is impressive. However, the 15 M badges stuck all over it are a bit too much IMO...
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      02-27-2021, 02:50 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMSport View Post
No, it's not the same concept. Why did you refer to these models as packages?
Who is doing the comparing? It's usually insecure "M" car owners that seem threatened for some odd reason.
You are the one coming off as insecure dude.
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      02-27-2021, 02:53 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw 06 View Post
My real M-car...

My fake M-car...
Lotus does this too. They have the "Cup" series of cars. Some are full-on race cars that can't even be driven on the street legally, while others are standard street cars with some racy bits.

But unlike BMW, if you want to turn your standard Elise/Exige into a Cup car, it's pretty easy, just take your pick of the upgrade parts Lotus bolted on and you're there.
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      02-27-2021, 03:04 PM   #31
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I always lol at fake badges too. It's just so lame and I can't for the life of me figure out why people do it.

Doug nailed it describing it as a lose lose. Only an enthusiast will even notice and that person will laugh at you so what's the point.
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      02-27-2021, 03:26 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMSport View Post
No because M3 owners wouldn't feel manly enough. They want to make sure people understand what they are driving
meanwhile you get ultra-defensive when someone tells you your car isnt a real M maybe you're the one with the insecurity issues?
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      02-27-2021, 03:49 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwingman View Post
You are the one coming off as insecure dude.
No, I'm definitely not. I get a kick out of M car owners talking shit about the lower tiered models with M badges on them. I seriously try to understand why.
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      02-27-2021, 03:50 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMSport View Post
It uses a lot of the M division's stuff though and it's also not a standard 3er.

Does it actually offend you when you see cars like an M340i or M440i? How about an M550i?
It doesn't offend me at all, it's just not an M car. You asked if it was a "fake M car". Not sure I would call it "fake", it's just not an M car.
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      02-27-2021, 03:54 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by six75LT View Post
meanwhile you get ultra-defensive when someone tells you your car isnt a real M maybe you're the one with the insecurity issues?
I don't think I'm being defensive at all. I just don't like it when people say things that are inaccurate, that's all. Case in point, an M340/440i being a "package" or referred to as an M sport when it's not.

I'm never going to claim my upcoming M340i is an M car because I do personally understand the difference. I am a previous e46 M3 owner so I know as someone else just posted about. It's true that that car had virtually no badges on it and is a well respected, iconic M car. At the same time I just simply don't think it's a reason to shit on today's M performance variants or the like. AMG division does the same stuff but that doesn't make a car like the new CLA45 shit, either.

This is a played out conversation that has taken place for many years. I think owners should be happy with whatever car they have which I am. I don't see a need to bash on others, especially people that come across as being an a-hole about it.

NOW, having said that, the ones that put their own badges on a car, THAT is a fake one and I'm sure everyone would agree
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      02-27-2021, 03:56 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
It doesn't offend me at all, it's just not an M car. You asked if it was a "fake M car". Not sure I would call it "fake", it's just not an M car.
That I can agree with. To be honest, I don't think most people that own an M performance variant claim it's a true M car.
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      02-27-2021, 04:02 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw 06 View Post
It seems to me that BMW's rear wheel drive "M Performance" cars (M240i, M340i,...) are pretty much what BMW's old rear wheel drive ZSP Sport Package cars (with sport-tuned suspensions) used to be, but the xDrive models have "SAV" suspensions.

My real M-car, a 2004 E46 M3 Coupe, with its special S54B32 engine, special Getrag gearbox, special clutch-type limited slip differential, special suspension, etc. has 17 M badges.

My fake M-car, a 2021 M240i, has 15 M badges. Most egregious of them all is the M badge on the plastic cover of the stock B58 engine. The M badges on the brake calipers are ridiculous too, especially when considering that the E46 M3 doesn't even have M badges on its brake calipers... Adding insult to injury, customers can't even order a proper limited slip differential as a factory option on the M240i, M340i, etc. For reference, My $25k 2020 Honda Civic SI Sedan came STANDARD with a helical limited slip differential (at 1/2 the price of my M240i)! This indicates to me that BMW isn't too serious about the actual performance of their "M Performance" line of cars...

Anyway. I like my M240i (with the dealer installed M Performance clutch-type limited slip differential), I think its a nice car, and I'm glad that BMW is still producing a few cars like it these days. I also think the adaptive sport suspension in the car is impressive. However, the 15 M badges stuck all over it are a bit too much IMO...
Yes, I know all about the e46. I can still respect what some of the high performance models coming out of BMW are however, even if they aren't real M cars so to speak.

I remember owning an e46 M3 coupe that was factory ordered to my specs (ex: no sunroof) and taking oil samples from my car and sending them to an independent testing laboratory on a regular basis to make sure there weren't any metal shavings in it. Back in the day there were some that had catastrophic failures with the S54 engine. Fortunately mine did not. I loved that car.
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      02-27-2021, 05:26 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexFL View Post
where is the M badge on the 218D gran tourer? Just out of curiosity.
On the side just behind the front wheel. It was there on the official press release pictures. Probably comes with a bumper package (I don't know if you have to pay extra or so). I'm pretty sure the car doesnt have an I6 or v8
It's small but it's still there.
Cutout of official release pictures:
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      02-27-2021, 05:30 PM   #39
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Not to step into a hornet’s nest, but I think the frustration is mainly this feeling that BMW is intentionally diluting the M brand and confusing the driving public. Then when I go spend a serious premium on a “true” M car it feels like the same people who sold it to me are simultaneously working to undermine the value of what I just bought. Obviously I bought the car for the performance, too, but let’s be real brand cachet was also part of the equation.

The M Performance cars are amazing. I wouldn’t suggest otherwise so definitely not looking to knock them.
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      02-27-2021, 05:30 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexFL View Post
where is the M badge on the 218D gran tourer? Just out of curiosity.
On the side just behind the front wheel. It was there on the official release pictures. Probably comes with a bumper package. I'm pretty sure the car doesnt have an I6 or v8
It's small but it's still there.
Cutout of official release pictures:
I forgot about this horrid little car until today.

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      02-27-2021, 05:37 PM   #41
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At least here in the US they don't put those M badges on the side like that. Could be that the US is the only market that doesn't. Hell they put them on the same models up in Canada. Seen them everywhere I've been while in Europe too.
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      02-27-2021, 05:38 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
I forgot about this horrid little car until today.

I also don't know why bmw started to produce the grand tourer and active tourer.
It's a popular segment at least in Europe, but there are other brands that do this imho better for a lot less money. (toyota, ford, VAG etc etc)
Then again, there seems to be a trend in the last 15 years to produce as much different segment cars and if there still isn't a segment for it.... just create that niche.
Therefore there are lots of cars I don't feel connected to from brands I do feel connected to. That last parameter goes down though.

Then again there are also brands that do it differently and still only produce cars that are in line with the brand's heritage and primeval goals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMSport View Post
At least here in the US they don't put those M badges on the side like that.
They're not on every car, but it being on the press release car suggests that you can get it there factory fitted if you want to.
Then again, if you're buying a 218d grand tourer..... why would you want to. Why even bother with the bumper styling package.....You will only draw more attention to that YOU are driving THAT

To me the 2 active/grand tourer screams to me that the man of the house was allowed to choose the brand that he wanted to but not the car that he wanted to...
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      02-27-2021, 06:25 PM   #43
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LOL, true that!
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      02-27-2021, 06:48 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
I forgot about this horrid little car until today.

Clearly an M car
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