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      01-10-2022, 01:35 PM   #67
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What's w this brother-on-brother violence? LOL. M-car ppl picking on M-variants? Like some ppl said already, blame your maker, BMW, they put the various badges on them, not like the M-variant ppl took off the 40i from their M340i (I'm not familiar w the exact designations) and said YA BABY, I gotz a M3 now!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Heck, M-cars themselves aren't even M-cars anymore, so whatever ppl, chill.
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      01-10-2022, 02:05 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
The first M-Performance vehicle (M235i) was unveiled in late 2013, MB soon followed with the C43 in early 2016. The 3er was just late to adopt the new nomenclature.
Pedantic correction.

That award would go to the M550d xDrive (both limo and Touring) and X5 & X6 M50d back in February 2012. Then came the M135i a few months later in mid-2012.

Mercedes did a similar thing around the same time with the A 250 Sport which was communicated as a vehicle "engineered by AMG." Followed by the 2015 C 450 AMG 4Matic, a year later stupidly renamed to C 43 AMG 4Matic.
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      01-10-2022, 02:20 PM   #69
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The 1987 M325i (E30) would like a word... or the M525i (E28).
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      01-10-2022, 02:41 PM   #70
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its everywhere.

you got M performance, M3, M3 competition, M3cs, GTS jahre, kith, etc etc.... and all the owners defend their badge with a passion lol. You got GTS owners thinking their car is a GT3 while the regular m3 is lowly base carrera in terms of comparison.

but... choice is good. the customer can have the option thats perfect for them. the regular old M3 is the sweet-spot for me. drove a comp and didn't feel any difference. and my f30 335i m sport wasn't sporty enough for canyon roads and lacked a diff.
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      01-10-2022, 02:57 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by TiMSport View Post
It uses a lot of the M division's stuff though and it's also not a standard 3er.

Does it actually offend you when you see cars like an M340i or M440i? How about an M550i?
Do you see this type of stuff with your Audi S3? Do the RS folks say it should just be an A3?
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      01-10-2022, 02:57 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by freakystyly View Post
The 1987 M325i (E30) would like a word... or the M525i (E28).
+ M635csi (E24)
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      01-10-2022, 03:06 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiftdnb View Post
Do you see this type of stuff with your Audi S3? Do the RS folks say it should just be an A3?
Wow, can't believe this post was revived. Lol.

To answer your question, no. I mean in general RS variants are pretty rare when compared to M cars. Also, I don't hang out on Audi forums these days but when I did, I never got any crap for owning an S3. At least I don't remember any RS3 owners dropping in and talking smack about the RS-wannabe S variant owners. I don't know, maybe Audi owners are more respectful or understanding about the lower tiered models? I think more often than not, the RS3 being an example, those owners were likely S3 owners at one point before making the upgrade.
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      01-10-2022, 03:32 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by TiMSport View Post
Wow, can't believe this post was revived. Lol.
lol, I thought it was new and just started reading through it.
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      01-10-2022, 03:36 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakystyly View Post
The 1987 M325i (E30) would like a word... or the M525i (E28).
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyjack View Post
+ M635csi (E24)
E30 M325i doesn't really count because it was just a NZ special, AFAIK. 325i Motorsport was a UK-special convertible that did not even have M-Tech aero.

E28 M525i, never heard of it, you mean the M535i? Ok, that one counts, so probably does the E34 M540 as well, but that thing was an attempt to satisfy the Canadian market for the lack of E34 M5s after 1993. And there were only 32.

E24 M635CSi definitely was not a ///Marketing exercise, come on now...
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      01-10-2022, 03:39 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiftdnb View Post
lol, I thought it was new and just started reading through it.
Haha, no worries bro. I've done the same thing before. Question is whether I need to put my flame suit back on again.
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      01-10-2022, 03:43 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Does it make it any more awkward if the real M car has less M badges than the M performance model lol?

BMW took it to the next level by placing the M340i type cars in the M section of the website... that was never the case before... then they added the limited slip diffs and at this point no one knows what's what.
So lame that BMW has gone this route with all the Badges. Fucking M badges everywhere on these non M cars. Between the Badging and the Burbles😵🔫. Whatever it takes to sell cars I guess.
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      01-10-2022, 04:38 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMSport View Post
Wow, can't believe this post was revived. Lol.

To answer your question, no. I mean in general RS variants are pretty rare when compared to M cars. Also, I don't hang out on Audi forums these days but when I did, I never got any crap for owning an S3. At least I don't remember any RS3 owners dropping in and talking smack about the RS-wannabe S variant owners. I don't know, maybe Audi owners are more respectful or understanding about the lower tiered models? I think more often than not, the RS3 being an example, those owners were likely S3 owners at one point before making the upgrade.
I think it is also due to Audi having S models first for many of their cars.

S3 1999, RS3 2011
S4 1997, RS4 1999
S6 1994, RS6 2002

So Audi people are familiar with S cars probably a bit more than BMW enthusiasts
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      01-10-2022, 04:48 PM   #79
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Audi has "S Line" for their A cars which is more parts bin accessories than anything, similar to "M Performance"
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      01-10-2022, 04:55 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
I think it is also due to Audi having S models first for many of their cars.

S3 1999, RS3 2011
S4 1997, RS4 1999
S6 1994, RS6 2002

So Audi people are familiar with S cars probably a bit more than BMW enthusiasts
Yes, you may be right about that. BMW releasing the so-called M Performance models is relatively new if I'm not mistaken so there isn't really a history of that, especially when comparing to Audi as you said. As such, I think some people may not fully understand what the M340i/M440i models really are since they aren't just badges or body kits on a standard G20/G22.

I think there may have been some confusion between what an M Sport versus an M Performance model was/is.
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      01-10-2022, 05:24 PM   #81
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Audi nomenclature>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BMW's. What a mess, e.g. what the heck is "sDrive"? (Rhetorical, it's just stupid.) Just a jumbled mess of an entire naming sys.
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      01-10-2022, 06:01 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
Audi nomenclature>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BMW's. What a mess, e.g. what the heck is "sDrive"? (Rhetorical, it's just stupid.) Just a jumbled mess of an entire naming sys.
Yeah, BMW clearly tried to copy Audi "S" cars and distinguish the higher performance standard model a bit more, but it's less clear.

Audi's line is the most logical in naming, A/S/RS.

BMW is close but since everything starts with M or has an M in it, average people just end up confused.

I think it would have been better if BMW created a different, non-M sub-brand perhaps. I think the "is" was pretty good but maybe not flashy enough.

just having the x was more clear than xDrive or sDrive.
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      01-10-2022, 07:24 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakystyly View Post
Audi has "S Line" for their A cars which is more parts bin accessories than anything, similar to "M Performance"
I’d think S-line is more like M-Sport…right?

You could order a 4-banger with M-Sport trim package…and that’s significantly cheaper with nowhere near the power and speed of an M Performance model.
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      01-10-2022, 07:55 PM   #84
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Well M-sport is a factory trim and M-Performance is dealer installed?

Either way it's a muddied mess and more than one auto brand is guilty.

Hyundai has Sport, N-line, N. Toyota has TRD, GR, GRMN? etc etc...
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      01-11-2022, 12:10 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakystyly View Post
Well M-sport is a factory trim and M-Performance is dealer installed?

Either way it's a muddied mess and more than one auto brand is guilty.

Hyundai has Sport, N-line, N. Toyota has TRD, GR, GRMN? etc etc...
I think you missed the point. Audi has kept their performance models distinguishable/identifiable by using the A/S/RS designations. For BMW, it was never that clear, it was like, 323, 330is, M3, or 328, 335, M3/M4. The mid-performance level, equivalent to the Audi "S", was never very clear. You could order M-sport packages for many models, but that didn't mean the model landed in the middle of the performance lineup in general. BMW has struggled to define their mid-performance models with anything other than a number.
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      01-11-2022, 10:39 AM   #86
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That's right, typically BMWs counter to the "S" cars has been their larger engine trims. Whether it was a 335 or 340 etc. However they never really were apples to apples. Did the S cars not typically have a nicer interior more comparable to an M car and an LSD (plus AWD) standard? Of course their performance was always on par with BMW's non Ms.
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      01-11-2022, 07:40 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakystyly View Post
That's right, typically BMWs counter to the "S" cars has been their larger engine trims. Whether it was a 335 or 340 etc. However they never really were apples to apples. Did the S cars not typically have a nicer interior more comparable to an M car and an LSD (plus AWD) standard? Of course their performance was always on par with BMW's non Ms.
As an owner of different Audi S models over the years, I can say that they are not comparable to BMW M-sport variants. S cars are not simply body kits and badges, they have larger, more powerful engines compared to their base series siblings. The difference between an A4 and S4 is quite a bit. In that respect the comparison would in fact be similar to a G20 330i and an M340i. As such, an RS model would in fact be comparable to a true M model generally speaking.
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      01-11-2022, 08:07 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiMSport View Post
As an owner of different Audi S models over the years, I can say that they are not comparable to BMW M-sport variants. S cars are not simply body kits and badges, they have larger, more powerful engines compared to their base series siblings. The difference between an A4 and S4 is quite a bit. In that respect the comparison would in fact be similar to a G20 330i and an M340i. As such, an RS model would in fact be comparable to a true M model generally speaking.
Yep you're 100% correct.

A4 = 320i/330i (or other various engines)
S4 = M340i
RS4 = M3

The Audi S-Line and BMW MSport trims to the smaller engined cars are just an appearance package.

I think the issue for BMW was that a few generations ago the 335i sounded like it was in the line with the 320i, 328i and didn't compete against the S4 as it didn't have a different naming scheme. Hence putting the M in front of the M340i, M550i, etc. But as we've all discussed in the last 6 or so posts the fact that M340i and M3 are quite close in name confuses people whereas RS, S, A don't confuse people as much.

Maybe 340iS would have been a good name as there was both E30 iS and E90 320Si and probably a few other models
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