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      02-23-2024, 05:33 PM   #6821
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Originally Posted by ibimmer954 View Post
My X4 is just as expensive as my i4 M50. There is no price difference. It's very Apples to Apples... My X4 M40i has 385hp and my i4 is over 500hp. Their cost was within two thousand dollars (about 3%). I don't mind paying slightly more for my electric when I getting even more performance.

It's just the operating cost on the i4 is several times (5x) less. Even if my electricity rates were to double the operating cost on the i4 would still be far less. I don't see electricity rates going up a lot without gas prices also going up. There are no oil changes and certainly less wear on the brakes in the i4 which are the main wear items in the X4. I guess the only place where the i4 is worse is that I burn through tires faster. But that's going to happen when you have double the torque off the line.

The major issue with the i4 is that the public charging (away from home) infrastructure sucks. It doesn't help that the current technology forces long waits to "refuel" the electric car. Adding 200 miles of range to a gas car takes a couple minutes. Adding 200 miles of range using DC Fast-Charge to today's electric vehicles can take anywhere from 20 to 40+ minutes not counting the wait time for public chargers. The wait time can be significant due to the scarcity of public chargers and the long "refuel" times.

So I wouldn't recommend a full electric vehicle as someone's only vehicle. Plug-in hybrid is much more reasonable in the current state of the world. Luckily I'm in a position where have the luxury of having an extra vehicle primarily for in-town use. Which, of course, is about 85+% of my driving time. While in-town I can drive for much less cost and recharge every night at home. Use the gas car for road trips.
If you need to buy an EV to offset the cost of driving a ICE BMW. You have the idea wrong. You shouldn't be buying a ICE BMW to start with. May be a Honda Civic Just like if you are dating a super model, don't expect she is low maintenance and willing to eat fast food with you everyday so you can save money. You pay what you get. Food for thought
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      02-24-2024, 06:01 AM   #6822
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Mercedes restarting ICE development.
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      02-24-2024, 06:13 AM   #6823
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lol

Knee-jerk bruises.
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      02-24-2024, 06:39 AM   #6824
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Teslas and other eV's feature a lot in very slow sellers from dealers. Main concerns from buyers are depreciation and if leasing the poor deals if you want to keep the vehicle.
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      02-24-2024, 06:41 AM   #6825
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Money and power make the elites go round.
Yeah the 'elites' just say ''take it back I want something else', cost? phah that's just for the peasants to worry about.
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      02-24-2024, 06:50 AM   #6826
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Teslas and other eV's feature a lot in very slow sellers from dealers. Main concerns from buyers are depreciation and if leasing the poor deals if you want to keep the vehicle.
Just to clarify. You can't buy out a Tesla from a new lease per the contract. Just posting in case anyone wonders.
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      02-24-2024, 06:55 AM   #6827
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Originally Posted by gblansten View Post
Just to clarify. You can't buy out a Tesla from a new lease per the contract. Just posting in case anyone wonders.
Never took on any vehicle on a lease, does that mean you must own it for 3 or so years then hand it back. I'm a newbie to this lease thing.
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      02-24-2024, 06:56 AM   #6828
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Originally Posted by eugenebmw View Post
Follow I guess this is what we call common sense nowadays
It's well known I have more than one car, but I've never claimed I bought one of them because it saved me money. In truth it's the complete opposite.
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      02-24-2024, 07:05 AM   #6829
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Originally Posted by gblansten View Post
Just to clarify. You can't buy out a Tesla from a new lease per the contract. Just posting in case anyone wonders.
Okay, that's not clear (not a flame)... Are you saying the terms of the lease state the lessee cannot buy the Tesla at the end of the lease term, meaning you have to give the car back at the end of the lease? Akin to a "forced" close-end lease?
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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      02-24-2024, 07:16 AM   #6830
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Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
Never took on any vehicle on a lease, does that mean you must own it for 3 or so years then hand it back. I'm a newbie to this lease thing.
Yes. But most leases for automobiles allow for an option to buy the vehicle at the end of the lease term.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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      02-24-2024, 07:27 AM   #6831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Okay, that's not clear (not a flame)... Are you saying the terms of the lease state the lessee cannot buy the Tesla at the end of the lease term, meaning you have to give the car back at the end of the lease? Akin to a "forced" close-end lease?
Yes. When you lease from Tesla (and I am doing so) you do not have the option to buy the car at the end of the lease. You have to give the car back. This is standard for Tesla.
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      02-24-2024, 07:37 AM   #6832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gblansten View Post
Yes. When you lease from Tesla (and I am doing so) you do not have the option to buy the car at the end of the lease. You have to give the car back. This is standard for Tesla.
Given the depreciation alone I can't imagine why anyone would want to buy any EV at the end of a 3 year lease.
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      02-24-2024, 08:19 AM   #6833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
Never took on any vehicle on a lease, does that mean you must own it for 3 or so years then hand it back. I'm a newbie to this lease thing.
I've leased for years but am no expert on the broad industry. I believe that most of the car companies allow you to buy the car at the end of the lease. I think Tesla is a definite outlier. Since my lease cost is partly a business expense I have always wanted to turn the car in and lease another. So I don't particularly care about the Tesla caveat on this.
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      02-24-2024, 09:27 AM   #6834
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Very interesting.
Toyota’s Leaked 1:6:90 Rule Reveals Why It’s Not Wasting Lithium on EVs
02/24/24
Toyota recently revealed it 1:6:90 rule, and this guideline for lithium allocation makes sense.
But to “mine” it we dig holes in salt flats, fill them with water, let the water evaporate, pile up the slightly more concentrated lithium slush, and often do it all over again. It is slow, bad for the local environment, and not an easy task for often underpaid workers.
The CEO of Mercedes warns EVs may double in price. The CEO of Stellantis worries there isn’t enough lithium on Earth to swap our massive automotive fleet for EVs–at any price point.
Enter Toyota: A leaked document reveals the automaker told its dealership network that the lithium and other rare materials required to build an EV could also be enough for six plug-in hybrids. Or, it could make 90 hybrids. What’s more, swapping 90 internal combustion cars for hybrids is much better for the environment than building one full EV. Much, much better. Toyota: “The overall carbon reduction of those 90 hybrids over their lifetimes is 37 times as much as as single battery EV.”
These numbers line up with my previous reporting. The Tesla Model S Long Range uses enough lithium to make more than 11 PHEVs. The Rivian R1T uses up enough lithium for 20 PHEVs. And the Hummer EV hogs enough lithium for 24 PHEVs. To get these numbers, I’m using the battery in the last generation Prius Prime PHEV. It got 25-miles of all electric range out of 1.5 kg of lithium. That’s enough range that the average American driver would only fire up the gasoline engine on long road trips.
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/toyota-lithium-evs/

Akio Toyoda delivers a truth bomb the green grifters will not like.
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      02-24-2024, 09:35 AM   #6835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf the Surf View Post
Given the depreciation alone I can't imagine why anyone would want to buy any EV at the end of a 3 year lease.
A lease is basically paying for the vehicle depreciation on a monthly basis. At the end of the lease, generally you are offered the vehicle at current market value. Sounds simple until you have a vehicle that has a greater depreciation than the lease was designed to handle. The finance provider holds the paper so they are the ones holding the bag in most cases. Even free government cheese will not fix this in the future.
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      02-24-2024, 10:25 AM   #6836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf the Surf View Post
Given the depreciation alone I can't imagine why anyone would want to buy any EV at the end of a 3 year lease.
When Tesla had the EV market to themselves it made sense because their vehicles held value very well. Now it is biting them in the ass because they most certainly are not holding value well and Tesla must reflect that in the residuals for new leases, which make them less attractive to lease.
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      02-24-2024, 10:30 AM   #6837
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Originally Posted by Car-Addicted View Post
Very interesting.
Toyota’s Leaked 1:6:90 Rule Reveals Why It’s Not Wasting Lithium on EVs
02/24/24
Toyota recently revealed it 1:6:90 rule, and this guideline for lithium allocation makes sense.
But to “mine” it we dig holes in salt flats, fill them with water, let the water evaporate, pile up the slightly more concentrated lithium slush, and often do it all over again. It is slow, bad for the local environment, and not an easy task for often underpaid workers.
The CEO of Mercedes warns EVs may double in price. The CEO of Stellantis worries there isn’t enough lithium on Earth to swap our massive automotive fleet for EVs–at any price point.
Enter Toyota: A leaked document reveals the automaker told its dealership network that the lithium and other rare materials required to build an EV could also be enough for six plug-in hybrids. Or, it could make 90 hybrids. What’s more, swapping 90 internal combustion cars for hybrids is much better for the environment than building one full EV. Much, much better. Toyota: “The overall carbon reduction of those 90 hybrids over their lifetimes is 37 times as much as as single battery EV.”
These numbers line up with my previous reporting. The Tesla Model S Long Range uses enough lithium to make more than 11 PHEVs. The Rivian R1T uses up enough lithium for 20 PHEVs. And the Hummer EV hogs enough lithium for 24 PHEVs. To get these numbers, I’m using the battery in the last generation Prius Prime PHEV. It got 25-miles of all electric range out of 1.5 kg of lithium. That’s enough range that the average American driver would only fire up the gasoline engine on long road trips.
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/toyota-lithium-evs/

Akio Toyoda delivers a truth bomb the green grifters will not like.
They've known this all along and it made zero difference to the Green Insanity. They're not even adding the MASSIVE number of utility scale battery complexes needed to go carbon free on the grid. Well, they also don't have the money either because when you do the math, you get hysterical laughter.
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      02-24-2024, 11:21 AM   #6838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weather Man View Post
They've known this all along and it made zero difference to the Green Insanity.
I think you may be giving these folks too much credit. I've gone toe to toe with quite a few of these global warming, EV's will save the planet folks over the years and I seldom see any sign that they have really thought things through. I think they are way more interested in the opinion and respect of their peers than facts and common sense.
Now Akio Toyoda IS thinking things through.
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      02-24-2024, 11:28 AM   #6839
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Originally Posted by Weather Man View Post
When Tesla had the EV market to themselves it made sense because their vehicles held value very well. Now it is biting them in the ass because they most certainly are not holding value well and Tesla must reflect that in the residuals for new leases, which make them less attractive to lease.
I'm pretty stoked on my next S Plaid lease being much cheaper.
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      02-24-2024, 11:30 AM   #6840
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gblansten View Post
I'm pretty stoked on my next S Plaid lease being much cheaper.
Your cup is always half full isn't it?
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      02-24-2024, 11:31 AM   #6841
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Your cup is always half full isn't it?
If I am driving a car with 1000+ hp then the cup is large and full baby.
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      02-24-2024, 11:40 AM   #6842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car-Addicted View Post
Your cup is always half full isn't it?
Some people don't make their car buying choices based on politics. I personally buy cars I like and can afford, period. I love my model 3 and none of the politics in here change the reasons I love it so... the answer to the original thread title is still yes!

Speaking of depreciation... if my Cayenne hadn't depreciated like rock I'd probably sell it and get a Model X or S.
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