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      01-25-2022, 12:35 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by matowi View Post
Well… Thanks

I am known for having replaced all doors in my house, as I was able to hear people talk in their rooms, without wanting to eavesdrop… and yes, I am overly sensitive to noises in my cars. I can recite from memory all creaks, rattles, and squeaks my past cars had… and how I detest the child seats… though, luckily, the one I currently have in the 7er is blissfully quiet (One of the newer BeSafe models, iSize compliant; highly recommended by the way!)

I am not letting my hopes. Will check with some professional car "silencers" and hope this will let me know more about possible ways forward

First world problems… not making a fuss about it

Hi Matowi,

Have you found a solution for the issue in discussion?
I am also sensitive to car noises - especially taking into account that I am also some sort of audiophile who's listening a lot to music on long car trips and silence on highway speeds was one of the reasons for choosing 7 series over 5 series (besides general confort etc). I have the car (Nov 2020 model - 750D LCI with ~5000miles/8000km on the clock) for just one month and in my case the noise can be heard from the upper frame of the driver's door. I haven't had the occasion to test-hear the right door but my wife (who also has sensitive ears ) didn't identify a similar noise on the passenger's door. The noise on the driver's door is similar to a window opened very-very little; the noise is not at all that disturbing as in your case/description but it's there and clicks on my brain . I will ask at the first inspection for a check of the issue but since it's quite discreet I don't have big expectations for a resolution.
One thing I had in mind is to repeat the test I did more than 10 years ago with a much more annoying whistle noise I had on an old Peugeot (it proved to be from the roof antenna in the end) - to seal with adhesive tape the driver's door, get in the car on the right door and make a drive-test. If there is no improvement -> remove the tape, seal only the driver's window and repeat test. I will not test the sealing of the mirror as well since in my case it's quite directional - upper door frame, so it's either the window seal or the door seal.
As soon as the weather gets better I'll make the test and post the results. In case you have any conclusion already please post.

Thanks,
Min.

PS: you car is almost a twin sister with mine
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      01-25-2022, 01:49 PM   #24
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Hey there!

Let me start with congratulating you on the color choice! Quite stunning

As for the noises - I haven't found a solution. However, I love the tape-and-test approach! I will try it as soon as the weather improves a bit. Hopefully, this will allow me to locate one part of my "noise problem" - the wind hum which appears at the base of the A-pillar and which is audible along the entire length of the window frame (rising towards the roofline)

I suspect the tape approach won't do much good in terms of fixing the other problem, i.e., the sensation of hearing the passing-by traffic. It's a bit disappointing that my 7-series doesn't handle this issue as well as even my cheap Opel and not-so-cheap Volvo did...

I'm pondering a more extreme approach, however the cost quoted by some sound insulation experts had dampened my eagerness to go ahead with it for now... The quotes I got (roughly EUR 2.5-3.0k) cover a thorough cabin insulation; during which they pretty much take the car apart, leaving only the dash intact (everything else is stripped to bare metal - including roof lining, floors, doors, the whole lot - and covered with sound-proofing materials; the same is done to window mounts, door seals, etc.)

My brother got his G31 (5 series wagon) done this way. I haven't yet tested it, but he seems happy with the results. I'll wait with my verdict until I've driven his ride after the operation

I'm curious to learn what you find during your tests!
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      01-26-2022, 05:39 AM   #25
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Hi,

Thanks for the quick reply! About the color - congrats for yours too (yours seems also the Donington grey?); not to mention your incredible looking 21" rims (for the moment I remained on 19" for comfort reasons, I'll see in the future if I switch to 20").

Getting back 'on-topic' : as mentioned, I plan to do the tape-test whenever the wheather improves a little. Fortunately for me I am not as affected as in your case: it's only the upper driver's door frame area which generates some low volume but still annoying wind draft noise (it is covered by the music if I increase the volume like 30-40% upwards). So I hope the test will quickly reveal the fix (which, I guess, will consist in replacing the window seal). One more test that I did and which might be helpful in your case: I attached a suction-cap phone holder on the driver's window and pulled it towards the interior of the car while driving. The purpose was to understand if the door is not sealing/pressed enough against the car frame/seals and me pulling it would seal it better; though it didn't seem to improve (perhaps just a little bit) - that's why I still suspect/hope it's from the window seal which is not 'embracing' correctly/completely the whole window...

About the windows versus insulation - it is not clear to me if I have the acoustic package; though "S356 Climate Comfort Laminated Glass" and "S358 Climate Comfort Windscreen" are listed for my car - perhaps they are just for climate protection or they include also the thicker glass? I am away now but in the weekend I'll be near the car and I guess I can easily lower the driver's window and see if it's double layered for the acoustic isolation...

One last word about the additional car body sound-proofing: I did some on my previous car (Alpina D3 - based on F30 model) during a major sound system upgrade. Basicaly lots of Dynamat sheets were inserted in all doors/panels, on the floor of the car and in the trunk&trunk lid. The effect on highway speeds were visible (especially much lower tyres noise) but wind noise (especially around windshield/sunroof/side windows) was still present (as expected). Ok, the sound-proofing was not done to the level mentioned by you (including roof, seals etc) but my advice is to try and test 2 similar cars/models (like also a G31 without sound-proof and then your brother's car) in order to take a better decision and adjust your expectations from the sound-proofing. If you conclude that the noise comes mainly from the windows/doors seals - I guess the acoustic glass would be the solution for you. Also you mentioned that that specific workshop can help also in improving the door/windows seals? Then definetly I would start with those: on one hand the work is less intrusive then dismantling the whole interior and, obviously, the costs will be much-much lower than the initial quote for the whole car's sound-proofing. I would be confident that acoustic glass plus the door&windows seals extra insulation would do the trick for you. On the other hand the visco-elastic insulators for the whole car (like Dynamat used in my Alpina for doors, floor, trunk) will add some tens of kgs to the weight of the car (in case you are obsessed like me of weight/performance/handling etc); and the facelift 7 comes indeed with lots of 'wool' based insulation (which is a light weight material). And it's not just marketing: in December I dismantled the rear seats and all trunk side-panels in order to install the ski-loading door and I can confirm they used indeed quite some amount of insulation. So for your car my bet would be towards the thicker windows and door/windows seals...

And just to add on the debate about acoustic glass role: 2-3 months before buying my car I tested also a similar facelift 7 series but the V8 - 750i (someone wrote that all 750i have by default the acoustic glass?!) and I am tempted to say that the road/wind noise was a little lower in that one than in my 750D?! It might be as well that I was testing it immediately after a long highway trip with my Alpina and on the spot the difference was quite big while now I am comparing my 750D road/wind noise with the similar noise (from my memory) of the 750i tested several months ago...

Good luck with your tests and next actions, I'll post my results as soon as I have news.

Last edited by min; 01-26-2022 at 12:57 PM..
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      01-28-2022, 10:31 AM   #26
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Loving the LCI 750d, what a machine very rare I would imagine, with some real punch from low revs.
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      01-30-2022, 10:15 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by min View Post
Hi,

Thanks for the quick reply! About the color - congrats for yours too (yours seems also the Donington grey?); not to mention your incredible looking 21" rims (for the moment I remained on 19" for comfort reasons, I'll see in the future if I switch to 20").
Yup, mine's also Donington. However, unlike yours, my car has a light interior, so it's strongly leaning on the "bright" side of things (light color, light interior, non-blacked out grille and side decor elements)

Quote:
Originally Posted by min View Post

One more test that I did and which might be helpful in your case: I attached a suction-cap phone holder on the driver's window and pulled it towards the interior of the car while driving. The purpose was to understand if the door is not sealing/pressed enough against the car frame/seals and me pulling it would seal it better; though it didn't seem to improve (perhaps just a little bit) - that's why I still suspect/hope it's from the window seal which is not 'embracing' correctly/completely the whole window...
This seems like a nice way to test the seals. I'm stealing the idea!

Quote:
Originally Posted by min View Post

One last word about the additional car body sound-proofing: (...) my advice is to try and test 2 similar cars/models (like also a G31 without sound-proof and then your brother's car) in order to take a better decision and adjust your expectations from the sound-proofing. If you conclude that the noise comes mainly from the windows/doors seals - I guess the acoustic glass would be the solution for you. Also you mentioned that that specific workshop can help also in improving the door/windows seals?
So, I did a back-to-back test with my brother's car. Same road, same conditions, we drove first in his car (with the super-duper sound proofing job done) and then mine. The difference was audible with respect to his car being much better at keeping the engine hum and the noise of passing-by traffic out of the cabin. However, even in stock form, my car is quieter when it comes to tyre roar and front screen noise. However, the fact that tyre noise was lower in my car may have more to do with the actual rubber than with the cars' sound insulation capabilities. I'm running BMW recommended Pirelli Sottozero 2s (with * etc), which in the BMW-spec are among the quietest winter tyres money can buy. My bro has some ultra high performance winter continentals, without BMW * (but with other parameters meeting OEM's specs). I bet they're much louder by themselves. Tyre widths are the same on both cars - 245 in the front and 275 in the back; side walls were also the same; however, mine are wrapped around 20" rims, my brother runs on 19"

Back to the wind noise, I'd say that around A-B pillar area it is exactly the same in both cars: it's a non-issue until ca. 70-80 km/h (45-50 mph), gets noticeable but not extremely annoying until ca. 100 km/h (60 mph), and gets on my nerves from ca. 140 km/h upwards (ca. 90mph). Which leads me to the conclusion that my Volvo V90 with acoustic glass was extremely quiet - to such an extent that top-of-the range bimmers with standard glass simply don't keep up

Based on your comments, I think I will pay a visit to an independent glass shop or some used parts dealer and enquire about double side window panes. I'm reluctant to change the windscreen though... Probably, I'll keep it in stock form, unless I'm forced to change it after some stone chip or similar damage requires that a new screen is put in place

Quote:
Originally Posted by min View Post

Then definetly I would start with those (...) and, obviously, the costs will be much-much lower than the initial quote for the whole car's sound-proofing.
Not so sure about the cost... When I approached my local BMW dealer asking for a quote for the acoustic-glass front screen (with HUD capability), they said EUR 2500... so the front piece of glass would run me more or less the same as the whole car sound proofing. All-round glass would go into EUR 5k territory

Quote:
Originally Posted by min View Post
I would be confident that acoustic glass plus the door&windows seals extra insulation would do the trick for you.
Yup, that is the first bet; I'll do any soundproofing as a secondary option

Regarding your other remarks... In a 3-er or even a 5-er I would worry about the extra 30-40kgs that the insulation would add. In my 7-er, which is hardly a curve carver (especially with a heavy diesel upfront...) I won't be concerned at all.

Also, I am certain there's lots of sound-deadening stuff on the car in stock form. The back-to-back with my brother clearly confirmed that. Too bad BMW decided to not offer acoustic glass as standard on all 7s. I mean... who would object to a roughly EUR 1k price hike for a base model, if that made the car so much more luxurious? Most buyers wouldn't blink an eye

Quote:
Originally Posted by min View Post
Good luck with your tests and next actions, I'll post my results as soon as I have news.
Looking forward to your report
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      02-02-2022, 05:21 AM   #28
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Loving the LCI 750d, what a machine very rare I would imagine, with some real punch from low revs.
Indeed - the retirement from BMW line of the 50D engine was the trigger for selling our previous Alpina D3 even if it was still somehow young (120.000km and still behaving like in the first day). We were targeting a 7 due to the increased confort but, in order not to feel a huge gap in performance from the 350HPs of the Alpina, we were thinking of the 750D. Though, since the overall production of the BMW 50D engine was ceased at the end of 2020 for all models, the available 750Ds LCI at an affordable price and with decent features were fewer and fewer, so finding one suitable for our taste was one difficult and expensive task... We were thinking as backup solution about the 750i but due to the huge taxes in Belgium (4.4 liter engine) and increased fuel consumption (like extra 4-5L/100km with my drivind style - at +40.000km/year the fuel difference starts to matter) that would have translated in additional 5-6000Euros/year versus the 750D. We were lucky though to find one car very close to our check-list ; overall (especially due to the less sporty oriented gearbox software, downshifting later/slower even in S mode versus Alpina) and combined with the size of the car - the feeling is of a lazier car than the much more agile Alpina (F30 LCI) D3. I miss sometimes that crazy pull when flooring the Alpina but overall the 750D also is quite fast as well; even if you don't feel like it pulls away from under your body and the seat rest pushes you forward (like the Alpina) - you realize how fast the 7 is when you check the speedometer after flooring it and realize how quickly the speed increases. Not to mention that the size of the car and the increased comfort makes the speed sensation/perception fade away. No regrets and very excited so far



Quote:
Originally Posted by matowi View Post
Back to the wind noise, I'd say that around A-B pillar area it is exactly the same in both cars: it's a non-issue until ca. 70-80 km/h (45-50 mph), gets noticeable but not extremely annoying until ca. 100 km/h (60 mph), and gets on my nerves from ca. 140 km/h upwards (ca. 90mph). Which leads me to the conclusion that my Volvo V90 with acoustic glass was extremely quiet - to such an extent that top-of-the range bimmers with standard glass simply don't keep up
Based on your comments, I think I will pay a visit to an independent glass shop or some used parts dealer and enquire about double side window panes. I'm reluctant to change the windscreen though... Probably, I'll keep it in stock form, unless I'm forced to change it after some stone chip or similar damage requires that a new screen is put in place
Not so sure about the cost... When I approached my local BMW dealer asking for a quote for the acoustic-glass front screen (with HUD capability), they said EUR 2500... so the front piece of glass would run me more or less the same as the whole car sound proofing. All-round glass would go into EUR 5k territory
Also, I am certain there's lots of sound-deadening stuff on the car in stock form. The back-to-back with my brother clearly confirmed that. Too bad BMW decided to not offer acoustic glass as standard on all 7s. I mean... who would object to a roughly EUR 1k price hike for a base model, if that made the car so much more luxurious? Most buyers wouldn't blink an eye
Looking forward to your report
Your further tests and findings make it more clear to me that the main area to work on are the windows (side and front). Btw - I checked visualy and indeed my side windows are double-layered. So I would definetely recommend to check some used parts dealers for some parts and, why not, labour quotations (some of these second-hand parts dealers specialized on BMWs only are familiar with working on the specific model and, if motivated, could work carefully on the entire inner doors dismantling, windows replacement etc). Quotations for these parts as new parts (all windows and all dedicated seals) plus labour from the official BMW dealer network would bring just frustration I guess...
About windshield - indeed, the proposed price of 2500E is discouraging. You could try either a quotation for an used one or... hurry with the stone chip? (( Though the insurance might cover costs only for a similar windshield and not agree with the 'upgrade' to the double-layered one?...
Nevertheless I still think that the whole set of windows (front and side ones) will bring a more noticeable improvement than additional floor/trunk/roof sound-proofing for the 7. For the used parts I guess some homework needs to be done - like checking on realoem.com the part numbers for understanding the differencens and extra parts needed (like just the side windows are different or also the side windows frame seals need to be changed etc).

About my car: I did the driver's door window test, sealing it with adhesive tape. I would say that the difference is minimal; as I mentioned from the beginning, in my case that noise is not that disturbing - it's just the obsession that it's not quite normal to be present (even if most people would not perceive it). It's like a draft which can be heard sometimes as if there are some outside gusts of wind from time to time (but low in sound volume/dBs). I guess indeed it depends also on the direction of the side wind; and it doesn't seem to increase with the speed: I could hear it now and then at 120 but also at 160 with the same volume. Indeed at 160-180 the other normal/expected wind noise around the windshield/sunroof area increases a little but still below any other car I tested so far. I'll do soon a test by asking my wife to drive so I can check also the passenger's side window but at some point it seemed that I could hear it slightly also in that right area even when I did sit in the driver's place (a longer trip while I am staying on the passenger's seat will confirm it). If that is the case I guess I'll just live with it since, as said - it's not that disturbing, it's mainly an obsession that something is wrong with the driver's door seal or window seal and that a tiny improvement could be still done... Compared to the previous Alpina it's day and night improvement for the general cabin noise - I guess I hear that little noise exactly due to the fact that the cabin is so silent overall.

PS: there is indeed something special about those Volvo's. I was pleasantly surprised by my brother-in-law's XC90 with the acoustic package - incredible silent at high speeds for a SUV (if I am not wrong it won the title as the SUV with the best aerodynamic coefficient).
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