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      05-30-2007, 12:24 PM   #1
STE92VE
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An open letter to the Owners of E90POST.com

Gentlemen,

It has come to my attention that certain administrative functions have been subject to abuse. Long standing members of this forum have had their posts arbitrarily deleted by someone other than themselves. These is a blatant attempt at censorship and can not and will not be tolerated by a membership that appreciates the free exchange of information and opinions on a subject that they have a passion for.

I request a full investigation and response as to why these posts have been deleted. I've been a member of this forum for over 1 year and have used the information that I obtained to help me with my decision to purchase my E92 and and I'm certain, many others have as well. Censorship is an ugly environment in which to participate in and I hope you can return this forum to it's proper place. If not, should we expect you to start burning our Owner's Manuals?

Thanking you in advance for your prompt reply and hopefully you will be able to right this ship.

Respectfully submitted,
STE92VE
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      05-30-2007, 12:40 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STE92VE View Post
Gentlemen,

It has come to my attention that certain administrative functions have been subject to abuse. Long standing members of this forum have had their posts arbitrarily deleted by someone other than themselves. These is a blatant attempt at censorship and can not and will not be tolerated by a membership that appreciates the free exchange of information and opinions on a subject that they have a passion for.

I request a full investigation and response as to why these posts have been deleted. I've been a member of this forum for over 1 year and have used the information that I obtained to help me with my decision to purchase my E92 and and I'm certain, many others have as well. Censorship is an ugly environment in which to participate in and I hope you can return this forum to it's proper place. If not, should we expect you to start burning our Owner's Manuals?

Thanking you in advance for your prompt reply and hopefully you will be able to right this ship.

Respectfully submitted,
STE92VE

+1
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      05-30-2007, 12:42 PM   #3
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good moderating here
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64365

so why is this thread still open then?
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64366
with comments like
"Wow...I hope this is a joke, that ****** needs to be punched in the face...then beaten with a bat."

it's not my forum, so moderate as you feel fit

but seems like comments about beating faggots with bats are worse than a sarcastic remark about the 335 being better than an Enzo
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      05-30-2007, 12:42 PM   #4
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deja vu or fe real... but i'd seen couple of my posts removed.
dint bother to complain cuz i was not sure.
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      05-30-2007, 12:44 PM   #5
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no the 335 is way better than the Enzo, the enzo is too impractical and itallian cars have bad reliability
plus if you get procede the 335 will be faster


above is my innapropriate comment that was deleted

thanks to some quick quoting by firstclass it was noticed!
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      05-30-2007, 12:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ward View Post
no the 335 is way better than the Enzo, the enzo is too impractical and itallian cars have bad reliability
plus if you get procede the 335 will be faster


above is my innapropriate comment that was deleted

thanks to some quick quoting by firstclass it was noticed!
Wont stop this thread from also being abused by someone, but I'll quote ya just in case.
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      05-30-2007, 12:47 PM   #7
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Ward...maybe it was pre-emptive policing, not necessarily an issue with your post but what it might become 20 pages down
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      05-30-2007, 12:47 PM   #8
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What's funny is that I sent messages to admins and mods and haven't heard a single peep. NOTHING...

Shame that a board as popular as this is seemingly being driven blindly, without anyone at the controls.
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      05-30-2007, 12:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ward View Post
no the 335 is way better than the Enzo, the enzo is too impractical and itallian cars have bad reliability
plus if you get procede the 335 will be faster


above is my innapropriate comment that was deleted

thanks to some quick quoting by firstclass it was noticed!
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      05-30-2007, 12:50 PM   #10
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Any examples of what's been censored? How much been censored? Or is it possible that some posts just got deleted accidentally? Another forum that I visit had huge amounts of threads deleted all of a sudden due to some errors.
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      05-30-2007, 12:52 PM   #11
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I dont feel that why! look at me! I've freely express my opinions around because I call them observations. no one can make be change my observations and opinions.

But then again, there are others that are blatant attacks and should be curtailed. I can see a few forgivings every so often but not all the time.
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      05-30-2007, 12:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revlis View Post
What's funny is that I sent messages to admins and mods and haven't heard a single peep. NOTHING...

Shame that a board as popular as this is seemingly being driven blindly, without anyone at the controls.
+1 I agree frige!
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      05-30-2007, 12:54 PM   #13
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Its a private own forum, they can do what they like.

There are other BMW forums to go to if you dont like it here.
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      05-30-2007, 12:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tctic View Post
Any examples of what's been censored? How much been censored? Or is it possible that some posts just got deleted accidentally? Another forum that I visit had huge amounts of threads deleted all of a sudden due to some errors.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...t=64350&page=2

I'd replied to post 26, my post was quoted in 27 and you can see my post is missing, but the post where I was quoted was not deleted

if they're going to delete it, just delete all evidence of it

I don't own the board, this isn't "free speach" but c'mon.......
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      05-30-2007, 12:57 PM   #15
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I'm reposting my own post, from a parallel discussion of this issue...

Quote:
I must say, in my experience and observation, Jason and Mark have always exercised wise judgements in their policing of the threads. There may be a few instances that generated widespread complaints. They always try to walk the fine line between freedom and utter chaos, that would only serve to bring down the fine name of this forum/community.

Also, sometimes its hard to assess the immediate and potentially explosive situation when you haven't spent enough time on it or in and around the forum. There might be underlying issues brought over from earlier instances etc etc. that is not easily apparent
One of the members involved is a dear community friend and I understand where he's coming from but he has also established that is is not the admins themselves, who are directly in the wrong.

So is the issue the actual policing or inconsistent policing? The admins are only 2, maybe we can help them out a little.
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      05-30-2007, 12:58 PM   #16
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The "Report Post" icon is there to notify the admins of offensive posts and abusers. It's the little triangle with "!" on the left side, under the Member's info.

As community members, we can let them know when things are getting out of hand.

Not sure why a moderator would delete a post solely because of an opinion statement. Is that what is happening?
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      05-30-2007, 12:59 PM   #17
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I say! BOYCOTT!
lets have a 24hr BOYCOTT and go to e90fanatics...
let go gang!



but then again that place is dead!
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      05-30-2007, 01:01 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackMac View Post
Not sure why a moderator would delete a post solely because of an opinion statement. Is that what is happening?
That is what happened in a recent controversial thread....and central to this very thread.

On your other points, I agree...
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      05-30-2007, 01:06 PM   #19
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I can give you some quick answers until the admins chime in.

#1 We cannot read each and every message, to assume that if a thread hasn't been moderated its because we want the racist, abusive, etc etc remark to remain is completly offbase. If you really value this community, instead of attacking the people who work hard to keep this place running, try to contribute, I haven't seen many/any posts reported by the people who are posting in this thread.

#2 Because you are new to this community, i'll let you know something. This site has been moderated since its inception. If we let go of this site (or any sites for that matter) for a week, the malicious posters get out of hand. Jason and Mark have been working nonstop to moderate the forums and keep it as a clean and informative site, I too help out when I can. When you joined the site and thought of it as a nice place, this is why.

#3 You talk of censorship as if your freedom of speech is being withheld. On the internet, there is no physical violence, it is speech that is the primary mode of communication. Communication is what the entire basis of this and any forum community is. Once you make an attack on that communication then you have made an attack on the community structure. Because of that, malicious speech such as personal attacks, racist attacks and unwarranted attacks are highly regulated. If you feel you have a right to make such attacks and posts, then I suggest you go elsewhere. This rule is not going to change I can tell you that much.

I can tell you that Mark and Jason are both distressed at times at how people will complain endlessly about this site, but never contribute to help it out by reporting posts. Most will just ask to become a moderator or an administrator (power trip), but wont actually report posts and pitch in for their part.

I can tell you personally, I have a strict set of guidelines I go by, and if you make any personal attacks on someone then you will get your post removed and/or a user infraction.
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      05-30-2007, 01:09 PM   #20
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Moderator: Fair response. Thanks.
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      05-30-2007, 01:21 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2DC View Post
Moderator: Fair response. Thanks.

+1
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      05-30-2007, 01:21 PM   #22
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So, Why Did this thread get Deleted, "Open Invitation to E90post Owners?"

Seems to be no reason, and no explanation given is just really poor management for ANY forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STE92VE View Post
Gentlemen,

It has come to my attention that certain administrative functions have been subject to abuse. Long standing members of this forum have had their posts arbitrarily deleted by someone other than themselves. These is a blatant attempt at censorship and can not and will not be tolerated by a membership that appreciates the free exchange of information and opinions on a subject that they have a passion for.

I request a full investigation and response as to why these posts have been deleted. I've been a member of this forum for over 1 year and have used the information that I obtained to help me with my decision to purchase my E92 and and I'm certain, many others have as well. Censorship is an ugly environment in which to participate in and I hope you can return this forum to it's proper place. If not, should we expect you to start burning our Owner's Manuals?

Thanking you in advance for your prompt reply and hopefully you will be able to right this ship.

Respectfully submitted,
STE92VE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revlis View Post
+1
Quote:
Originally Posted by ward View Post
good moderating here
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64365

so why is this thread still open then?
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64366
with comments like
"Wow...I hope this is a joke, that ****** needs to be punched in the face...then beaten with a bat."

it's not my forum, so moderate as you feel fit

but seems like comments about beating faggots with bats are worse than a sarcastic remark about the 335 being better than an Enzo
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesiGUY View Post
deja vu or fe real... but i'd seen couple of my posts removed.
dint bother to complain cuz i was not sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ward View Post
no the 335 is way better than the Enzo, the enzo is too impractical and itallian cars have bad reliability
plus if you get procede the 335 will be faster


above is my innapropriate comment that was deleted

thanks to some quick quoting by firstclass it was noticed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revlis View Post
Wont stop this thread from also being abused by someone, but I'll quote ya just in case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2DC View Post
Ward...maybe it was pre-emptive policing, not necessarily an issue with your post but what it might become 20 pages down
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revlis View Post
What's funny is that I sent messages to admins and mods and haven't heard a single peep. NOTHING...

Shame that a board as popular as this is seemingly being driven blindly, without anyone at the controls.
Not trying to be a PITA, but what is going on here?
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