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      11-14-2019, 05:08 PM   #441
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...g-green-enough



I'm thinking about suing due to all these record cold temperatures around here the past week. FFS I want my warming!
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      11-15-2019, 08:21 AM   #442
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Dr. Patrick Moore on Climate Change

Past president of Greenpeace and why he left.

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      11-15-2019, 08:39 AM   #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
At no time in the last 2.8 million years did the CO2 vary beyond 170 to 300ppm. In the last 140 it went from 300ppm to 400+ ppm.
If I ignore the entire temperature history of the earth and instead cherry-pick starting and ending dates, I can make a temperature graph show any trend I choose. Same goes for CO2. This morning when I woke up it was 24 degrees, and at 4 PM it'll be 40. HOLY FUCK! A 66% INCREASE! WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE! BY NEXT WEEK THE EARTH WILL BE JUST A SHIMMERING GLASS BALL! SEND ALL YOUR MONEY TO THE UN, QUICK!

Uh...no.
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      11-15-2019, 08:45 AM   #444
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Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
Past president of Greenpeace and why he left.

Dr. Moore does a great job (not sure it's in this video, but...) of describing the ideological shift of the environmental movement, from protecting the earth to punishing progress and denigrating all human activity. He saw it from the inside, and that's why he left.
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      11-15-2019, 08:48 AM   #445
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Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...g-green-enough



I'm thinking about suing due to all these record cold temperatures around here the past week. FFS I want my warming!
Great idea! After all the tens of billions of our tax dollars spent towards climate research, I think we're well within our rights to present our tax returns as proof of payment and demand an immediate 30-degree warm-up. Completely reasonable.
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      11-15-2019, 08:51 AM   #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennsiveguy View Post
Dr. Moore does a great job (not sure it's in this video, but...) of describing the ideological shift of the environmental movement, from protecting the earth to punishing progress and denigrating all human activity. He saw it from the inside, and that's why he left.
So this guy is a scientist and this is in his wheelhouse. There are several others like him, hundreds and perhaps thousands to be sure so I'm not sure why so many say the science is settled. Especially given the association to wealth redistribution and the influence of the green energy sector to push the agenda.
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      11-15-2019, 08:51 AM   #447
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
If it were settled, it wouldn't be science. If it's science, it'll never be settled. The notion of "settled science" is oxymoronic. And several other forms of moronic as well.
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      11-15-2019, 08:53 AM   #448
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Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
So this guy is a scientist and this is in his wheelhouse.
An understatement, to be sure. He was one of the earliest Environmental Science PhD holders, and a "founding father" of the modern environmentalist movement.
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      11-15-2019, 08:56 AM   #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennsiveguy View Post
An understatement, to be sure. He was one of the earliest Environmental Science PhD holders, and a "founding father" of the modern environmentalist movement.
So the other thing I find frustrating, I believe we should treat the planet well, pollute less and find better ways to do things especially things that pollute. But I also question much of what I see in the green agenda because of guys like Patrick Moore and I get called denier. I don't see why there can't be a dialogue, real debate on the subject.
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      11-15-2019, 08:58 AM   #450
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More Dr. Patrick Moore

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      11-15-2019, 09:03 AM   #451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
So the other thing I find frustrating, I believe we should treat the planet well, pollute less and find better ways to do things especially things that pollute. But I also question much of what I see in the green agenda because of guys like Patrick Moore and I get called denier. I don't see why there can't be a dialogue, real debate on the subject.
+1000

The social media noise created by extreme voices at the fringes of the ideological spectrum has drowned out civil debate and any notion of a middle ground. Bill Nye the (pseudo)Science Guy even advocated arresting anyone voicing skepticism about man-made climate change. Most unfortunate.
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      11-15-2019, 10:16 AM   #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
So this guy is a scientist and this is in his wheelhouse. There are several others like him, hundreds and perhaps thousands to be sure so I'm not sure why so many say the science is settled. Especially given the association to wealth redistribution and the influence of the green energy sector to push the agenda.
If you want to see a Nobel Prize-winning physicist take a hatchet to climate change alarmism, watch this.
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      11-15-2019, 10:24 AM   #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennsiveguy View Post
If I ignore the entire temperature history of the earth and instead cherry-pick starting and ending dates, I can make a temperature graph show any trend I choose. Same goes for CO2. This morning when I woke up it was 24 degrees, and at 4 PM it'll be 40. HOLY FUCK! A 66% INCREASE! WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE! BY NEXT WEEK THE EARTH WILL BE JUST A SHIMMERING GLASS BALL! SEND ALL YOUR MONEY TO THE UN, QUICK!

Uh...no.
Well if you want to know the contribution that man has made to changing the climate...gee you would have to compare the last 140 years to the period whan man was not a contributor. Is that too deep for you to follow?
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      11-15-2019, 10:27 AM   #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennsiveguy View Post
If you want to see a Nobel Prize-winning physicist take a hatchet to climate change alarmism, watch this.
The guy belongs in an alzheimers ward.....wow.
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      11-15-2019, 10:30 AM   #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
Well if you want to know the contribution that man has made to changing the climate...gee you would have to compare the last 140 years to the period whan man was not a contributor. Is that too deep for you to follow?
Great idea! So compare the last 140 years to the period from 400-600 million years ago, when CO2 concentrations were ~6000ppm. See how easy I did that?
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      11-15-2019, 10:31 AM   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
Well if you want to know the contribution that man has made to changing the climate...gee you would have to compare the last 140 years to the period whan man was not a contributor. Is that too deep for you to follow?
If you only sample the last 140 years, you're missing hundreds of millions of years of data.

What about the ice age? Whats to say there wasn't an opposite event that happened prior to that? How do we know we're not just seeing the effects of the Milankovitch cycles?
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      11-15-2019, 11:10 AM   #457
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Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
The guy belongs in an alzheimers ward.....wow.
Great refutation of his arguments. I'm convinced!
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      11-15-2019, 11:34 AM   #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitm2 View Post
If you only sample the last 140 years, you're missing hundreds of millions of years of data.

What about the ice age? Whats to say there wasn't an opposite event that happened prior to that? How do we know we're not just seeing the effects of the Milankovitch cycles?
Other than cataclysmic natural events (asteroid impact, eruption of supervolcanoes), find me any evidence that the Earth in the past cooled or warmed as quickly in as short of a period as the last 150 or so years.

No one's claiming that there's never been any climate change in the history of the earth. Ice ages take thousands of years to form, if not a million. Heck, even the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (when the Earth reached an average temperature more than 10 degrees warmer than current average temperatures (which resulted in palm trees in the Arctic)) took about 15 million years to increase a mere 5 degrees. So far, the Earth's average temperature has increased about 1.4 degrees in the last 140 years.

Is it possible this is an anomaly? Sure, but do you really want to bet against the survival of our species? At what point are you going to get concerned?
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      11-15-2019, 11:43 AM   #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoy View Post
Other than cataclysmic natural events (asteroid impact, eruption of supervolcanoes), find me any evidence that the Earth in the past cooled or warmed as quickly in as short of a period as the last 150 or so years.

No one's claiming that there's never been any climate change in the history of the earth. Ice ages take thousands of years to form, if not a million. Heck, even the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (when the Earth reached an average temperature more than 10 degrees warmer than current average temperatures (which resulted in palm trees in the Arctic)) took about 15 million years to increase a mere 5 degrees. So far, the Earth's average temperature has increased about 1.4 degrees in the last 140 years.

Is it possible this is an anomaly? Sure, but do you really want to bet against the survival of our species? At what point are you going to get concerned?
Well, maybe if folks could have an honest debate about the actual changes and what the causes are rather than alarmist continuing to tell us we'll be underwater 5 years ago. It is difficult to take folks seriously when all of the predictions being made of the last decade or two have been wrong, and along with these predictions we are having changes shoved down our throats that many scientists say are window dressing and wealth redistribution.

I'm all for not polluting, and finding cleaner and better ways to do just about everything but if I hear one more shrill activist screaming that I am personally killing the planet without a proper debate then no, I'm not going to get concerned that there is something we can do to prevent climate change.

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      11-15-2019, 11:56 AM   #460
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Quote:
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...At what point are you going to get concerned?
1000ppm.
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      11-15-2019, 12:04 PM   #461
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As I've stated in previous posts, there are essential, fundamental questions regarding climate change. What is the correct average temperature of the earth? What is the actual current temperature? What concrete and specific actions would make up the difference? If the answer to any of those isn't clear, obvious, and feasible then the whole thing falls apart.
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      11-15-2019, 12:52 PM   #462
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