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      01-16-2020, 06:49 PM   #177
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Some guys are happy because now they own a ///M car now, and other are hurt because they don't feel special anymore
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      01-16-2020, 06:49 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan86 View Post
They do deserve to be in a separate category, and they are. Look at the prices

Having owned both, I can't bring myself to understand your logic.
People work hard to own any car, period, that's common sense. Though most owners who paid MSRP or more than their annual salary to have the latest/greatest depreciating asset from BMW must justify their purchase when debating "value".

Most (new) M car owners are legit pussies as drivers and can't drive the cars to their factory limit let alone the limits of the cars after they dump $20k into performance modifications.

Most older "M" car owners can't afford to obtain or finance the newer cars, and they equally justify their ownership with "older is better, more raw, NA bro". Then there's the sensible ones, who buy what makes them happy, not what everyone thinks will be the best car, for them.. they get by just fine, too. The performance margins between the M cars of today, and their m-variants, make for another discussion altogether, the gap-up is no longer what it used to be.
Amen! with the blatant narcissism being displayed by the so called real M drivers. I am proud to not be a part of that camp. Their self esteem is tied to their cars, they didn't buy their M cars for the performance. They bought it merely as a status symbol to shout to others that they have the better car than the other 3 series guy.

I mean, if you want to impress someone with a performance car, get a 997.2 GT3 RS. M3 isn't even considered a sports car these days. Why settle for M3, there are far better drivers car, yes they cost more, but we know these real M drivers all have unlimited sums of money so why are these grown men here crying about dilution.
Real M car is a real M car. It's not about feeling better about ourselves, we're talking facts here.

Why not get better sports cars? Been there done that. I actually do not own any M cars currently but facts are facts.
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      01-16-2020, 06:51 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
I mean, if you want to impress someone with a performance car, get a 997.2 GT3 RS. M3 isn't even considered a sports car these days. Why settle for M3, there are far better drivers car, yes they cost more, but we know these real M drivers all have unlimited sums of money so why are these grown men here crying about dilution.
Beginning with a faint but distinct whiff of reverse snobbism, you are incorrect on all counts.

First of all, Iím not a grown man. Iím pretty childish according to those who know me, and I donít have unlimited funds.

I need a sedan because I must transport tallish teenagers to swim practice, carry the occasional (Home Depot) load in the trunk, 4 tires and tools to the track, and humiliate a few of those RS drivers when I get there. If you know of a better ďsports carĒ which can do all this, please point it out. In fairness, Iím pretty sure it wonít be an M340i, but Iím willing to be persuaded if itís cheaper and does the same duty cycles...
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      01-16-2020, 06:53 PM   #180
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      01-16-2020, 06:54 PM   #181
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Love all the judgement sling'n from the cheap seats of the internet.
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      01-16-2020, 06:54 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post


Some guys are happy because now they own a ///M car now, and other are hurt because they don't feel special anymore
Not totally true, I got my car in August, we just learned of this yesterday and it doesn't change a thing for me. Life goes on as usual, checked my savings account and the balance is the same as it were the day before. Which is why i don't get the outrage from the other camp. They're the ones crying for something this silly.
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      01-16-2020, 06:57 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
Amen! with the blatant narcissism being displayed by the so called real M drivers. I am proud to not be a part of that camp. Their self esteem is tied to their cars, they didn't buy their M cars for the performance. They bought it merely as a status symbol to shout to others that they have the better car than the other 3 series guy.

I mean, if you want to impress someone with a performance car, get a 997.2 GT3 RS. M3 isn't even considered a sports car these days. Why settle for M3, there are far better drivers car, yes they cost more, but we know these real M drivers all have unlimited sums of money so why are these grown men here crying about dilution.
These are literally facts dude. You can read up on BMW M GmbH's history on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M

I'm sorry but your M340 did not undergo the same expansive R&D process the M division products do.

You M performance guys keep trying to spin this into an ego/insecurity thing.
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      01-16-2020, 06:58 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by NUTScapes View Post
You guys are all missing the actual discussion point. The only real M cars are the ones that have manual transmissions.
Or we could say the real M cars died with the high revving NA engine variants.
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      01-16-2020, 06:59 PM   #185
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This is nothing new. The Model selectors in the European websites have been configured this way for a while already: when you click on "M models", you get the entire list of cars that have ///M in their designation. ///Marketing at its best .

https://www.bmw.de/de/index.html
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      01-16-2020, 07:00 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by MSCD View Post
Is it retrospective?
If you mean retroactive, then yes. For example, the letters ZHP in my E46 330i ZHP were the German secret designation for the capital letter M. And when they created the E36 325is, I know for a fact that BMW had just run out of the M letters and substituted a lowercase "s".

They've since rectified all these minor anomalies.
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      01-16-2020, 07:03 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTO24 View Post
Whatever they do with regards to naming/branding, can people at least stop putting ///M stripes on their grills?
This!! How on earth people think that looks good is beyond me.
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      01-16-2020, 07:03 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
Or we could say the real M cars died with the high revving NA engine variants.
Or with the low revving NA engines, since both the E30 M3 and US E36 M3 had lower Rev limits than my F80...
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      01-16-2020, 07:04 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan86 View Post
It is not in the same category. But based on the M designation, to BMW, it's an M car.

...

Different categories in my eyes regardless of performance margins between full M and variant models.
All things considered, it did get a pretty significant boost of 65 horsepower and shed half a second from its 0-60 time, compared to the f30 340i. I just don't think BMW should dilute its brand and call it by that beautiful letter we all love.
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      01-16-2020, 07:06 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by f80er View Post
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Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
Who cares? I could make a debaged B58 run in the 10's and smoke one of you M corporate lease guys any day.
Tell us where the bad M car touched you.
Ok corporate M man. I just took a look at your profile lol, stick to the "news" section while I blow by your F80 👋🏼.
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      01-16-2020, 07:08 PM   #191
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And now here come the M owners about to say the M340i is not a true M car and shouldn't be in the same category. Lol.
Which is 100% true lol. Not because its a m340, but because of the lack of feeling while driving it. Its simply put not a M car lol doesnt make it a bad car though
I was about to say all the comments were preemptive strikes from M340 owners, but then you go and do that! 🤣
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      01-16-2020, 07:09 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elitex View Post
Real M car is a real M car. It's not about feeling better about ourselves, we're talking facts here.

Why not get better sports cars? Been there done that. I actually do not own any M cars currently but facts are facts.
The performance gap between base trim levels and full performance cars has simply been filled by a new line of "M" variants.

We should all look at it as another option as opposed to the "M is best, and that's it" philosophy. I've owned both, and see both sides, this isn't such a big deal but the M fan club seems disgruntled about the gap getting filled by these new models

If you remember when the m235i came out, the M2 was still a myth for NA. The m235i was all the rave by reviewers and enthusiast alike simply due to its interior size and near 50/50 weight, power and essentially E46 M3 chassis dimensions. There was no other M variant available yet (m550i was still in development) and no one barked at the fact that this non-M car was putting lengths on the 1M, and previous generations of M3's on track.

Now that they've diluted a bit further with added variants, it seems like most are chalking these up as rebranded "m-sport" models, which simply they are not.
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      01-16-2020, 07:11 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
Same approach as AMG with the C43.
To be fair, it's really Audi that started the ball with the dilution of the "S" designation.
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      01-16-2020, 07:11 PM   #194
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This tread will be worse then the G80 giant grill
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      01-16-2020, 07:12 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan86 View Post
They do deserve to be in a separate category, and they are. Look at the prices

Having owned both, I can't bring myself to understand your logic.
People work hard to own any car, period, that's common sense. Though most owners who paid MSRP or more than their annual salary to have the latest/greatest depreciating asset from BMW must justify their purchase when debating "value".

Most (new) M car owners are legit pussies as drivers and can't drive the cars to their factory limit let alone the limits of the cars after they dump $20k into performance modifications.

Most older "M" car owners can't afford to obtain or finance the newer cars, and they equally justify their ownership with "older is better, more raw, NA bro". Then there's the sensible ones, who buy what makes them happy, not what everyone thinks will be the best car, for them.. they get by just fine, too. The performance margins between the M cars of today, and their m-variants, make for another discussion altogether, the gap-up is no longer what it used to be.
Amen! with the blatant narcissism being displayed by the so called real M drivers. I am proud to not be a part of that camp. Their self esteem is tied to their cars, they didn't buy their M cars for the performance. They bought it merely as a status symbol to shout to others that they have the better car than the other 3 series guy.

I mean, if you want to impress someone with a performance car, get a 997.2 GT3 RS. M3 isn't even considered a sports car these days. Why settle for M3, there are far better drivers car, yes they cost more, but we know these real M drivers all have unlimited sums of money so why are these grown men here crying about dilution.
I disagree. Yes, I believe the majority of people driving around in new leased M cars are just badge snobs with more money than the badge snobs driving around in an M340, there are a lot of older M owners this is not true for.

I also disagree that older M cars are for poor people. Most anyone can walk into a dealership and sign paperwork for a $900 lease with proof of income and mediocre credit.

Not many people can hand over a $30k cashiers check for a 10 year old car. Nor can they stomach the absurd cost of maintenance.

I'm 37, self-employed, bi-coastal (live in both Florida and California), and have the title to my car in a safe. Am I rich? No. Could I walk into a BMW dealership today and take my pick? Yes.

What I'm getting at is, the type of people who simply point at an older car and blame it on lack of financial ability to procure a newer car just don't get it.

Would you point at someone in an old Porsche 356 that he just bought at auction for $200k and write him off as being poor for driving an old car?

Some M owners maintain their own cars, love a specific platform for a reason, care about heritage and legacy. They love driving a true motorsport-derived car, even if it means expensive maintenance, obsessive warm up routines, quirkiness they call "character", etc.

I drive an E92 M3 because I love German V8s and I love the M3 heritage. I read about M history, enjoy wrenching on my own car (I pay a membership fee to access a lift I use regularly and do all of my own work, aside from rod bearings).

Owning my M3 is expensive. And tedious. And time consuming. At times it's a downright hassle. But I do it enthusiastically, and it's rewarding.

It's nice to know that badge is special. Not because I care what it means to others. But as a true car enthusiast from the age of like two years old, it's a badge of pride. It reminds me that I've subscribed to an entire ownership experience and not just something neat to get from point A to point B in.

I guess badge/brand dilution doesn't really piss me off the way it does others, but it certainly doesn't help maintain the brand as a true enthusiasts brand, and my decision to drive the M3 I most desire is not reflective of what I can afford. It's reflective of how much I'm willing to participate in the ownership experience, and when I roll my eyes at non-M cars with M badges, it's is most certainly not rooted in narcissism.
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      01-16-2020, 07:14 PM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan86 View Post
The performance gap between base trim levels and full performance cars has simply been filled by a new line of "M" variants.

We should all look at it as another option as opposed to the "M is best, and that's it" philosophy. I've owned both, and see both sides, this isn't such a big deal but the M fan club seems disgruntled about the gap getting filled by these new models

If you remember when the m235i came out, the M2 was still a myth for NA. The m235i was all the rave by reviewers and enthusiast alike simply due to its interior size and near 50/50 weight, power and essentially E46 M3 chassis dimensions. There was no other M variant available yet (m550i was still in development) and no one barked at the fact that this non-M car was putting lengths on the 1M, and previous generations of M3's on track.

Now that they've diluted a bit further with added variants, it seems like most are chalking these up as rebranded "m-sport" models, which simply they are not.
Sorry, but it's not. BMW simply tagged the ///M badge in front of the top base series variant. That trim/performance level has always historically existed in the line-up, it was just branded differently. The same applies to AMG and Audi-S. It is solely a Marketing thing, not an engineering nor a performance one.
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      01-16-2020, 07:14 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by elitex View Post
Real M car is a real M car. It's not about feeling better about ourselves, we're talking facts here.

Why not get better sports cars? Been there done that. I actually do not own any M cars currently but facts are facts.
The performance gap between base trim levels and full performance cars has simply been filled by a new line of "M" variants.

We should all look at it as another option as opposed to "M is best, and that's it" philosophy. I've owned both, and see both sides, this isn't such a big deal but the M fan club seems disgruntled about the gap getting filled by these new models

If you remember when the m235i came out, the M2 was still a myth for NA. The m235i was all the rave by reviewers and enthusiast alike simply due to its interior size and near 50/50 weight, power and essentially E46 M3 chassis dimensions. There was no other M variant available yet (m550i was still in development) and no one barked at the fact that this non-M car put lengths on the 1M, and previous generations of M3's.

Now that they've diluted a bit further with added variants, it seems like most are chalking these up as rebranded "m-sport" models, which simply they are not.
M performance models are better than M sports models, I agree with you there.

There's still a big difference between an M car and M performance cars. M performance may be getting close in straight line speed but there's more to an M car than just straight line performance.

Are M performance great performing cars? Yes, absolutely. Are they M cars? Absolutely not!
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      01-16-2020, 07:15 PM   #198
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Scanning through this thread the non-M owners seem wayyyy more angry for some reason. I keep seeing the term "insecure" thrown around for some reason but perhaps it is just projection?
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