[EBIINYC]

Hey guys! Long time no post.

So my car is calling for the first service interval for oil change at about 7k. I'm wondering if I should go through the p.i.t.a process of removing the JB Stage 1 off my car before heading in for that oil change? What are the risks?

For the record I'm in New York, what dealership would be most likely to overlook this??

[Moony]

Depends on the dealership, I'd try to call around and ask about it. Most of the dealerships down here in South Florida don't care as a good amount of their customers mod their cars in and out.

[the_phew]

Stage 1 is three connectors; took mine off for service and it took like 5 mins. Hardly a PITA. Just use a small flat head screwdriver to help release the clips.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Igor_1080

Hey guys! Long time no post.

So my car is calling for the first service interval for oil change at about 7k. I'm wondering if I should go through the p.i.t.a process of removing the JB Stage 1 off my car before heading in for that oil change? What are the risks?

For the record I'm in New York, what dealership would be most likely to overlook this??

PITA process? its 2 sensors that should take 10-15 minutes max
Double check with your adviser before your visit.

[EBIINYC]

I don't want to have to deal with this honestly, its a thing that takes time and effort for really no reason. Thats why I'm asking the question, I'm familiar with the process it takes to remove it but it still will take time out of my day.

[Livfast335]

Originally Posted by Igor_1080

I don't want to have to deal with this honestly, its a thing that takes time and effort for really no reason. Thats why I'm asking the question, I'm familiar with the process it takes to remove it but it still will take time out of my day.

Seriously? I think I can hold my breath the time it takes to remove the cover, and unplug and replug the 2 plugs. Takes less then 1 minute.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Igor_1080

I don't want to have to deal with this honestly, its a thing that takes time and effort for really no reason. Thats why I'm asking the question, I'm familiar with the process it takes to remove it but it still will take time out of my day.

So you are better off risking your warranty for a less than 10 minute job?

[EBIINYC]

I suppose you're right. From that perspective it makes sense. Thank you for your input.

I was looking for a way around doing it.

[ahero4eternity]

Time out of your day? Reduce your morning sh!t/shower/shave by a few minutes and you're good to go. lol

[rjc32000]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

So you are better off risking your warranty for a less than 10 minute job?

I realize that what you say is a popular sentiment on this forum, but this is pretty close to encouraging fraud.

The risk to the warranty doesn't arise from not taking the JB off before service; the risk to warranty arises from install of the JB in the first place.

It is common knowledge that BMW can and does refuse warranty repairs upon their determination that after-market mods were to blame (I realize that whether or not aftermarket parts actually cause failures is subject to debate, but the ability of dealerships to refuse warranty service is not, as your post acknowledges). When you install such parts, you assume the risks associated with the same. Attempting to elude detection in order to later claim warranty service is dishonest and unethical. And the costs incurred by BMW and the service department in covering damage to a car caused by aftermarket mods are passed along to all of us in the form of higher prices.

Your encouragement that the OP commit fraud is particularly shitty given that you apparently:
1) earn an income by selling aftermarket tunes;
2) acknowledge that the same can affect warranty coverage; and
3) publically encourage people to deceive BMW into providing warranty service they *may* not be entitled to by removing the products you sell.

I'm a firm believer that people should take responsibility for their actions. If you choose to install aftermarket mods that alter the function of the car in a way not intended by BMW, then don't expect to get warranty service when something breaks.

Again, I realize that many people on this forum might take issue with this and attempt to justify it in myriad ways (BMW makes tons of money, BMW is a huge faceless corporation, tunes don't really damage engines, BMW charges too much, etc), but the reality is that real enthusiasts support the brands they love; they don't try to cheat them and steal from them.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Actually by law , the dealership is not allowed to void your warranty unless the modification part damaged your car. As long as the mod did not cause any harm to the car, they cannot void it. So no this is not fraud, its more a good advice for less headache

[rjc32000]

And the purpose of your advice that he remove the chip before service is to avoid detection, thus preventing the service department from determining that the mod caused the hypothetical damage, right?

Don't try to backpedal here, dude. The reason you suggested he remove the JB was to avoid detection and provide plausible deniability in case something goes wrong. Otherwise, what's the point of removing it?

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Actually by law , the dealership is not allowed to void your warranty unless the modification part damaged your car. As long as the mod did not cause any harm to the car, they cannot void it. So no this is not fraud, its more a good advice for less headache

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by rjc32000

And the purpose of your advice that he remove the chip before service is to avoid detection, thus preventing the service department from determining whether the mod caused the hypothetical damage, right?

Don't try to backpedal here, dude. The reason you suggested he remove the JB was to avoid detection and provide plausible deniability in case something goes wrong. Otherwise, what's the point of removing it?

You might want to read the first post... He does not have any problems just a scheduled oil change

[rjc32000]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

You might want to read the first post... He does not have any problems just a scheduled oil change

So why tell him to remove the JB in the first place? You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. First he should remove JB in order to avoid potential warranty coverage issues down the road. Now you are saying it really doesn't matter?

You told him to remove it for one reason: to avoid detection and preserve warranty coverage down the road in the event the JB causes problems.

Backpedal all you want. You are encouraging the OP to deceive the service department today so that in the event the JB causes problems down the road, he may fraudulently claim otherwise and get warranty coverage. That's just wrong.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by rjc32000

So why tell him to remove the JB in the first place? You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. First he should remove JB in order to avoid potential warranty coverage issues down the road. Now you are saying it really doesn't matter?

You told him to remove it for one reason: to avoid detection and preserve warranty coverage down the road in the event the JB causes problems.

I told him to remove it so the dealer does not give him a hard time.
Is it legal for the dealership to void the warranty because of a tune ( without any sign of damages to any car component) ? NO
Do some dealerships give people a hard time and refuse to do warranty work because of a tune? Yes
Unless he is willing to call BMW USA and/ or get a lawyer, i advised him to remove the JB stage 1.

[QuikSilver_]

I'm pretty sure this guy is just getting an oil change

[bahasad]

Originally Posted by rjc32000

So why tell him to remove the JB in the first place? You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. First he should remove JB in order to avoid potential warranty coverage issues down the road. Now you are saying it really doesn't matter?

You told him to remove it for one reason: to avoid detection and preserve warranty coverage down the road in the event the JB causes problems.

Backpedal all you want. You are encouraging the OP to deceive the service department today so that in the event the JB causes problems down the road, he may fraudulently claim otherwise and get warranty coverage. That's just wrong.

Here we go with this again...mr. righteous bmw corporate savior ITT to give us an ethical lesson on a stage 1 tune.

BMW service people dgaf about a tune. It hasn't caused him any issues, he's going for routine maintenance and they are going to get paid for this service.

If one dealership denies you, go to another one NBD. My dealership didn't bat an eye the 3 times I went to the dealer with a stage 1 tune and exhaust and intake and chargepipe on the car for routine checks.

Turning a simple oil change into an ethical debate on aftermarket mods

[E90Alex]

Originally Posted by rjc32000

So why tell him to remove the JB in the first place? You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. First he should remove JB in order to avoid potential warranty coverage issues down the road. Now you are saying it really doesn't matter?

You told him to remove it for one reason: to avoid detection and preserve warranty coverage down the road in the event the JB causes problems.

Backpedal all you want. You are encouraging the OP to deceive the service department today so that in the event the JB causes problems down the road, he may fraudulently claim otherwise and get warranty coverage. That's just wrong.

It seems like you are trying to start unnecessary drama

[rjc32000]

Originally Posted by bahasad

BMW service people dgaf about a tune.

So why do all the purveyors of tunes advertise their undetectability by BMW service as a feature? I mean, this is a major selling point for all of these devices, right?

From Burger's description:
"Installation is very discrete and it quickly removes without a trace when needed."

The "when needed" is obviously "when you need to seek service by BMW and want to hide the fact that you modded your car."

[metrathon]

Originally Posted by rjc32000

I realize that what you say is a popular sentiment on this forum, but this is pretty close to encouraging fraud.

The risk to the warranty doesn't arise from not taking the JB off before service; the risk to warranty arises from install of the JB in the first place.

It is common knowledge that BMW can and does refuse warranty repairs upon their determination that after-market mods were to blame (I realize that whether or not aftermarket parts actually cause failures is subject to debate, but the ability of dealerships to refuse warranty service is not, as your post acknowledges). When you install such parts, you assume the risks associated with the same. Attempting to elude detection in order to later claim warranty service is dishonest and unethical. And the costs incurred by BMW and the service department in covering damage to a car caused by aftermarket mods are passed along to all of us in the form of higher prices.

Your encouragement that the OP commit fraud is particularly shitty given that you apparently:
1) earn an income by selling aftermarket tunes;
2) acknowledge that the same can affect warranty coverage; and
3) publically encourage people to deceive BMW into providing warranty service they *may* not be entitled to by removing the products you sell.

I'm a firm believer that people should take responsibility for their actions. If you choose to install aftermarket mods that alter the function of the car in a way not intended by BMW, then don't expect to get warranty service when something breaks.

Again, I realize that many people on this forum might take issue with this and attempt to justify it in myriad ways (BMW makes tons of money, BMW is a huge faceless corporation, tunes don't really damage engines, BMW charges too much, etc), but the reality is that real enthusiasts support the brands they love; they don't try to cheat them and steal from them.

Dear co-forum-er, welcome to the desert of the reality. BMW is trying to cheat you and steal from you at every turn. They give you the minimum for the maximum. So please, save the righteousness for Sunday morning

[Bassthe1st]

I thought BMW knows if you mod the car because they record when the engine runs out of it's parameters? So even if you remove your JB, they can still know.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Bassthe1st

I thought BMW knows if you mod the car because they record when the engine runs out of it's parameters? So even if you remove your JB, they can still know.

the dealership does not check these parameters unless you are taking your car for a damaged engine. Even then it is debatable what they can check