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      06-02-2023, 06:46 AM   #1
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The BMW i7 & AMG EQS driven until they die [Carwow]

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tís time to find out which luxury electric car will take you the further - the Mercedes-AMG EQS 53, or the BMW i7!

Weíve got Mat and Daniel (the presenter from @carwow.de) in both of these cars, theyíve been fully charged, and theyíre going to drive them continuously up a British motorway until the batteries are fully depleted!

So letís see how the two compare. Starting with the Mercedes, weíve got the top-of-the-range Mercedes-AMG EQS 53. As a result it comes equipped with two electric motors that can produce 658hp and 950Nm of torque. However, this car also has a £9,000 performance pack added to it, so the power output has been increased to 750hp and 1,020Nm!

The EQS is also equipped with a 107.8kWh battery pack that is good for a claimed range of 357 miles. Naturally, itís pretty heavy, weighing in at 2,580kg, and an AMG EQS fitted with the £9,000 performance pack will cost around £170,000.

Next up we have the BMW. Itís the 760i edition, and just like the EQS itís also equipped with two motors. The power output is 544hp and 745Nm of torque. Itís heavier than the EQS, at 2,640kg, and it has a 102kWh battery pack thatís good for a claimed range of 385 miles. Given itís not the i7M (which isnít available to buy yet), itís cheaper than the EQS, starting from £110,000.

So which will go further - the BMW, or the AMG? Comment with your guess, then sit back and see which wins!
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      06-03-2023, 10:48 AM   #2
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Still looks like the maximum range is around 300 miles, and the charging networks (with the exception of Tesla) arenít yet well enough established. Plug in hybrids are probably the best choice if you want to start out with an EV at this point.
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      06-03-2023, 12:11 PM   #3
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Still looks like the maximum range is around 300 miles, and the charging networks (with the exception of Tesla) arenít yet well enough established. Plug in hybrids are probably the best choice if you want to start out with an EV at this point.
How often does the average person drive more than 50-100 miles in a day?
If not often, what makes you think range and charging infrastructure are that important?
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      06-03-2023, 01:33 PM   #4
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How often does the average person drive more than 50-100 miles in a day?
Let me take that question further -- how often does the average person drive more than 250 miles in a day? The answer -- maybe a couple two to four times a year (if you consider an outward and return journey).

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Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
If not often, what makes you think range and charging infrastructure are that important?
Because when I'm making an infrequent all-day road trip, the last thing that I want to do is stop two or three times for 30+ minutes each time to charge my car for the next couple hundred miles. There's a HUGE difference between a 5 minute gas and bio break and a 30+ minute re-charge break on an all-day trip. Imo, that's where the EV problem is moving to. Range is becoming a less important issue (Lucid's already over 500 miles). But range anxiety is being replaced by long recharge times. That's the next mountain to conquer imo.
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      06-03-2023, 01:47 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by hinckley View Post
Because when I'm making an infrequent all-day road trip, the last thing that I want to do is stop two or three times for 30+ minutes each time to charge my car for the next couple hundred miles. There's a HUGE difference between a 5 minute gas and bio break and a 30+ minute re-charge break on an all-day trip. Imo, that's where the EV problem is moving to. Range is becoming a less important issue (Lucid's already over 500 miles). But range anxiety is being replaced by long recharge times. That's the next mountain to conquer imo.
You must not be an EV driver I take it? The VAST majority of charging (as you alluded to) will not occur at fast chargers - it will occur overnight at home (literally 99% for most people).
As a result, fuel costs relative to ICE will be VASTLY reduced. The main factor limiting EV adoption is not range or charging times, itís the purchase price.
In reality, with 200 miles of range, you can drive for three hours straight non-stop. At that point, you will likely want/need a 30 min bio and food break anyway. Itís not going to be a huge deal for most people considering this situation factors into 1% of use cases.
This is why your analogy of a 5 min gas fuel up doesnít apply here - most people will have the re-fueling station at home which will refuel their car 99% of the time while they sleep.
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      06-03-2023, 01:53 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
How often does the average person drive more than 50-100 miles in a day?
If not often, what makes you think range and charging infrastructure are that important?
It isn't the 50-100 mile trips. Those are manageable if you have charging, even Level 1, at both ends. It is the infrequent longer trips of 200-300 miles, a few times a year for me, that tip the balance to gas for the time being. On a trip to Florida from New York, it is charging anxiety for sure that kept me from an i7 rather than a 760ix. It is the length of stops on the way, and uncertainty when you stop for the night in unknown parts whether there is anywhere to charge, and then, if you are renting a place or staying at a hotel, not knowing where you can recharge. We have more than 1 car so we could leave the 7 at home but long highway trips are exactly where the 7 shines.
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      06-03-2023, 02:16 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
You must not be an EV driver I take it?
Right. Charging time still too long for me.

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Originally Posted by AlteBMW View Post
We have more than 1 car so we could leave the 7 at home but long highway trips are exactly where the 7 shines.
My point exactly. For me, EVs are great around town and shorter hop appliances. But there's still nothing like a big, comfortable ICE for all-day cruising.
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      06-03-2023, 02:21 PM   #8
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My point exactly. For me, EVs are great around town and shorter hop appliances. But there's still nothing like a big, comfortable ICE for all-day cruising.
Fair enough.
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      06-03-2023, 02:22 PM   #9
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EVs are still very inefficient in comparison to ICE as their suggested range is not accurate at all. I would not want to have an EV as my only means of transportation during a cold winter if I were to drive upstate NY on an emergency since you have no way of knowing how much less your range would be just because of cold weather. Plug-in hybrids are still better options to pure ICE cars.
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      06-03-2023, 02:49 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
You must not be an EV driver I take it? The VAST majority of charging (as you alluded to) will not occur at fast chargers - it will occur overnight at home (literally 99% for most people).
As a result, fuel costs relative to ICE will be VASTLY reduced. The main factor limiting EV adoption is not range or charging times, itís the purchase price.
In reality, with 200 miles of range, you can drive for three hours straight non-stop. At that point, you will likely want/need a 30 min bio and food break anyway. Itís not going to be a huge deal for most people considering this situation factors into 1% of use cases.
This is why your analogy of a 5 min gas fuel up doesnít apply here - most people will have the re-fueling station at home which will refuel their car 99% of the time while they sleep.
Not to pick on this, itís mostly accurate

As a contrasting point-as someone who lives in a city; I do not have a charging station easily available, and the ones that are hidden in parking garages scattered in the city charge .59/kWh; so the fuel costs are not cheaper, and the availability and convenience of being able to drive without planning is whatís currently missing for my situation. We have a young child, canít be in a situation where either a planned stop has stations that donít work or take too long.

The uncertainty is what keeps us with an ICE for now.

(Short version: your answer is reasonable for a suburban view. Large city situations are different)

Curious how all the regulations saying after 2030 no ice vehicles will work in the absence of proper charging availability
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      06-03-2023, 02:57 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Vudoo4u2 View Post
Curious how all the regulations saying after 2030 no ice vehicles will work in the absence of proper charging availability
2050 is a more realistic time frame, at least for the US. And by then, we'll have hopefully worked our way through the terrible environmental impact of mining battery rare-earth minerals.
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      06-03-2023, 03:10 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
You must not be an EV driver I take it? The VAST majority of charging (as you alluded to) will not occur at fast chargers - it will occur overnight at home (literally 99% for most people).
No particular benefit over a PHEV here unless you drive a whole lot more than the PHEV electric-only range.

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Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
As a result, fuel costs relative to ICE will be VASTLY reduced. The main factor limiting EV adoption is not range or charging times, it’s the purchase price.
You don't need an EV for this. For the right use cases, a BMW X5 45e can go without fuel realistically for a month or two. For people who use <31 miles a day (commute), they can go months without refueling.

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Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
In reality, with 200 miles of range, you can drive for three hours straight non-stop. At that point, you will likely want/need a 30 min bio and food break anyway. It’s not going to be a huge deal for most people considering this situation factors into 1% of use cases.
This is why your analogy of a 5 min gas fuel up doesn’t apply here - most people will have the re-fueling station at home which will refuel their car 99% of the time while they sleep.
Lots of copium here and does not reflect reality.

We had a Tesla Model Y and my BMW X5 45e start at 6 PM from a location for a roughly 6 hour drive home. Here's the difference:
- I could consistenly do 90 mph+ on the open road. The Model Y couldn't as the range reduction was substantial when going over 65-70 mph.
- Same story going uphill - lots of range reduction on the Model Y while I could go up as fast as the conditions allowed.
- I didn't have to stop for a full charge a little before midnight in an isolated charging station.
- I reached home an entire 2-2.5 hours before the Model Y with a ton of gas remaining in the car. I arrived roughly around 1 AM, and went to sleep and they arrived around 3-3:30 AM.

It's a huge difference and the Model Y was honestly a drag on keeping pace while going in the opposite direction. Had to stop with them, etc. Decided to split on the way back because of this.
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      06-03-2023, 03:12 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by hinckley View Post
My point exactly. For me, EVs are great around town and shorter hop appliances. But there's still nothing like a big, comfortable ICE for all-day cruising.
I agree that EVs are still not ideal as an only car solution. I have a Taycan with 260+ range perfect for daily use, I will never need more in one day. And the wife drives an X5 45e PHV with us great for around town and long family trips we use ICE only with no need to plan the trip around charging. Combined we are 85% electric which I think is a good balance. Eventually EVs will improve but we are not there yet.

Anyways, with the price range of these cars most who can afford it also have an ICE car.
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      06-03-2023, 04:14 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
You must not be an EV driver I take it? The VAST majority of charging (as you alluded to) will not occur at fast chargers - it will occur overnight at home (literally 99% for most people).
As a result, fuel costs relative to ICE will be VASTLY reduced. The main factor limiting EV adoption is not range or charging times, itís the purchase price.
In reality, with 200 miles of range, you can drive for three hours straight non-stop. At that point, you will likely want/need a 30 min bio and food break anyway. Itís not going to be a huge deal for most people considering this situation factors into 1% of use cases.
This is why your analogy of a 5 min gas fuel up doesnít apply here - most people will have the re-fueling station at home which will refuel their car 99% of the time while they sleep.
What about actually using a car for a trip? You say 30 min pit stop- but when I had an IX and tried to fast charge- I couldnít find an open charger! I waited 20 mins to then charge 20 mins. Thatís 40 mins on the current infrastructure.
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      06-03-2023, 04:42 PM   #15
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For people complaining about range, if you are buying a six figure EV, then you should have plenty of money to have a second vehicle for long and/or emergency road trips, so unless that is also a BEV, there is zero issue. I daily a Taycan (BEV), have a Cayenne E Hybrid (PHEV) and a Honda Ridgeline (ICE) so two options for if I need to leave now for a cross country road trip. Again, if you have the income to purchase a six figure vehicle, you should have options where range on a long trip is a non issue. As it stands, my Taycan with its 800V charging capability can add well over 100 miles in a 15 minute charge stop. Range anxiety is only a thing for people who haven't moved to BEV for any of their vehicles.
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      06-03-2023, 04:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
How often does the average person drive more than 50-100 miles in a day?
If not often, what makes you think range and charging infrastructure are that important?
Ummmm! LOTS! If you live in So.Cal, for example, the round trip commute is often 100+ miles a day. It's not even JUST the specific mileage that needs to be considered. It's the battery being drained while you sit in that traffic. It can take HOURS to drive 40 miles here.

The people being dismissive of range anxiety aren't really thinking about it from a myriad of perspectives. Just recently we had a shooting right off the freeway. Traffic was backed up for hours. All of the EV's died on the freeway. It was an absolute mess.

The charging infrastructure is hugely important if the government and car companies are going to sell us on the ridiculous idea that all of us can drive EV's. We all can't even run our air conditioner units at the same time without blacking out the grid, yet, we are to believe that we can all drive/charge EV's without SIGNIFICANT infrastructure upgrades?!?!

Last edited by Sedan_Clan; 06-03-2023 at 05:39 PM..
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      06-03-2023, 04:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
How often does the average person drive more than 50-100 miles in a day?
If not often, what makes you think range and charging infrastructure are that important?
300 miles in summer. 200 miles in winter. in europe, a tiny area where people live in cities, and cant charge often, in general - this is crap range.

But of course, if you live in one of those large houses with 3 car garages like most people on this forum seem to have based on threads, I think 300 miles really is super sufficient and more is not needed. It is probably enough, unless you do road trips of course, and generally speaking use car more than just commute back and to work.

600-800 mile range is what's ideal, this is what an efficient diesel engine gets in Europe.

Sorry I bring Europe up, its a European brand, I think it matters for that a bit. I have no clue on China, but there they have huge amount of EVs sold (way more nominally than in West) - and they probably can build a network thats good enough way faster than Europe or US.

I hope that BMW and Mercedes makes this mess of a system Europe has for chargers work over time. Or do this road charging thing that I think Sweden plans in some areas (you drive and charge the car).
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      06-03-2023, 05:37 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
How often does the average person drive more than 50-100 miles in a day?
If not often, what makes you think range and charging infrastructure are that important?
You will find out the answer when you will get stuck on your way to go on vacation with your wife.
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      06-03-2023, 08:09 PM   #19
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For people complaining about range, if you are buying a six figure EV, then you should have plenty of money to have a second vehicle for long and/or emergency road trips, so unless that is also a BEV, there is zero issue.
You're effectively agreeing that EVs are not good for long distance travel.

For those who don't want to maintain a fleet of cars just to get the benefits of an EV, a PHEV with a great electric-only range ticks all the boxes in a single car.
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      06-03-2023, 09:44 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by kjx View Post
You're effectively agreeing that EVs are not good for long distance travel.

For those who don't want to maintain a fleet of cars just to get the benefits of an EV, a PHEV with a great electric-only range ticks all the boxes in a single car.
Not really, unless you ignored my comment on the 800V architecture my BEV has. My point is that both the i7 and EQS start over $100,000 which means someone who is buying one of these should have the means to have another vehicle or be able to rent one if they are worried about road trips. Also, PHEV arenít great when used in Electric only mode, they are heavy and slow, every single PHEV (of which my Cayenne is one) available currently works better in Hybrid mode, which blends ICE and Electric. The only benefit of an electric mode on a PHEV is for city centers that have outlawed or toll ICE usage.
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      06-03-2023, 10:17 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
How often does the average person drive more than 50-100 miles in a day?
If not often, what makes you think range and charging infrastructure are that important?
Just for reference my last job was 9 miles from my house and it took about 15 mins to get there, but all my previous coworkers commuted about 1-2 hours in all directions. It didn't make any sense to me, but they were easily hitting 50-100 miles per day.

Secondly, there's a parking lot near me with a charge station, and it's almost always full. Every time I go there's at least 2 cars parked waiting for an opening to charge. Last time, a friend and I were able to park, finish our food, and leave before any of the cars advanced in the line.

I can't drive 2 miles without seeing 10 teslas in my area, so Id imagine as more electric cars hit the road, they will need places to charge.
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      06-04-2023, 12:35 AM   #22
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Lots of copium here and does not reflect reality.

We had a Tesla Model Y and my BMW X5 45e start at 6 PM from a location for a roughly 6 hour drive home. Here's the difference:
- I could consistenly do 90 mph+ on the open road. The Model Y couldn't as the range reduction was substantial when going over 65-70 mph.
- Same story going uphill - lots of range reduction on the Model Y while I could go up as fast as the conditions allowed.
- I didn't have to stop for a full charge a little before midnight in an isolated charging station.
- I reached home an entire 2-2.5 hours before the Model Y with a ton of gas remaining in the car. I arrived roughly around 1 AM, and went to sleep and they arrived around 3-3:30 AM.

It's a huge difference and the Model Y was honestly a drag on keeping pace while going in the opposite direction. Had to stop with them, etc. Decided to split on the way back because of this.
Lmao @ ďcopiumĒ. Funny how you use an anecdote which again falls into the 1% of use cases. I just did an 11 hour road trip today in an EV and had no issues. However that is still not indicative of the vast majority of the time I use it. To each there own I guess. And by the way - there is ZERO chance a PHEV is as efficient as a similarly sized EV. Not denying there are benefits to ICE/PHEV vehicles, but there are also contrasting benefits to EVs.
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