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      02-24-2012, 01:57 PM   #67
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Woah woah my man. They are making a ver limited amount of them for some very wealthy people because it was so well liked.
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      02-24-2012, 04:21 PM   #68
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I hear you.

I don't think the i3 will be like those cars you mention in that, my understanding is that the body shell will be virtually all carbon fiber. I could be wrong about that, however that is my recollection from reading the press material and looking at the pictures that BMW release back when it was still called the "Megacity". In any case this won't effect the 7 series since it won't be nearly that carbon intensive - but as things evolve and time goes on it will no doubt gradually move in that direction assuming that the whole CFRP revolution within BMW has legs.

I would be interested to see the outcomes of structural carbon fiber repairs in today's cars and also other applications. Can you repair a carbon fiber ski or ski pole, for example? I have to admit I'd be surprised if you could. Well, not that you'd want to anyway, but it was just an off the cuff example to establish a base-line. What about a broken carbon fiber bicycle frame? Or a a brake rotor (I think they make those now, right F-599X)? Are they making carbon fiber suspensions now days? I think maybe in race cars right? Do they repair those? Not that you'd necessarily even want to repair such things if they were made from steel or aluminum either, but you probably could with success if you really needed to. Just some thoughts.

The i3 is basically a occupant cell sitting on a aluminum subframe. I imagine BMW will use this or some very similar technique when it all trickles down the BMW brand line.

A ski construction i'm not sure about but a ski pole usually has a different type of construction. It's usually not a woven fabric but a continuous fiber strand or group of fiber strands wrapped around like you see on a spool of thread. If you look at some of them closely you will see this, as well as the pattern made by the varying strand orientations. Same for a lot of race car suspension arms and links. Brake disc are and entirely different construction as well, I don't think they are repairable or should be.
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      02-24-2012, 05:20 PM   #69
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Shit, I just thought of this:

Where in the heck does the carbon in "carbon" fiber come from? Don't we need car's CO2 to get the carbon to make the carbon fiber?
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      02-24-2012, 05:21 PM   #70
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Ever hear of photosynthesis?

So when do we start regulating the CO2 output of the world’s largest pollution source - the 6 billion or so humans that live on the planet?

Internal combustion engines can run on other fuels as well as gasoline.

There are some geologists who believe oil is not finite...

Are you going to be the first one to volunteer to stop breathing for the sake of the planet?
Ok captain crazy. Plants do process c02, but not on the level humans are producing it, and the conspiracy of oil not being finite is 20x more of a crazy conspiracy theory than the Kennedy assassination.

Quit wasting your mind...
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      02-24-2012, 05:22 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by ENINTY View Post
Shit, I just thought of this:

Where in the heck does the carbon in "carbon" fiber come from? Don't we need car's CO2 to get the carbon to make the carbon fiber?


Please shoot yourself... They have nothing in common...
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      02-24-2012, 06:18 PM   #72
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Please shoot yourself... They have nothing in common...
Dude, it was a joke; but actually they do. Depends on how you look at the cycle of carbon in the environment.
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      02-24-2012, 06:19 PM   #73
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Ok captain crazy. Plants do process c02, but not on the level humans are producing it, and the conspiracy of oil not being finite is 20x more of a crazy conspiracy theory than the Kennedy assassination.

Quit wasting your mind...
Crazy enough to be a cover story on Time magazine about 18 years ago.

But don't worry; nothing you can or are going to try to do is going to "save" the planet. Live your life, pollute as least as you can, conserve resources as much as you can (I do), but thinking a $150,000 carbon fiber car is going to preserve the planet's status quo (as you now know of it) is wasting your mind.

I'm just curious how BMW is going to deal with European Union requirements for car recycling. Although carbon fiber is recyclable it is sure to be tens of times more expensive than recycling metals.

Last edited by ENINTY; 02-25-2012 at 11:13 AM.
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      02-25-2012, 11:39 AM   #74
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It appears we are headed towards an era of unbelievably expensive vehicles for the sake of meeting unrealistic efficiency standards all based on the false religious belief that carbon dioxide is a pollutant.
False belief? Have you been living under a rock somewhere?
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      02-25-2012, 02:35 PM   #75
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I am not taking sides on the CO2 debates yet. But you kinds of thoughts of force feeding your belief is what the people of the good ole USA do not appreciate. If you have a good point make it a convincing one and people will make their own decision. Maybe Europe is a better place for your type?... just sayin'

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And people wonder why the US is at the bottom of the heap when it comes to math and science. The engineer in me just wants to force feed people like this a science textbook or two, but alas it would probably just be a waste of my time, probably a hopeless effort.
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      02-25-2012, 08:46 PM   #76
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Definitely thought this meant a carbon fiber car key...
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      02-25-2012, 10:20 PM   #77
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Smile lol

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No. The republicans made it political. C02 at least makes the oceans acidic. It does cause global warming. 99% of scientists agree. Keep watching Fox news.
Ok show me that 99% agree. That's what the media trys to tell you, but it is not a fact. You will learn that in the next years. Oh and I can't watch FOX news...
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      02-25-2012, 10:29 PM   #78
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The climate has always been changing... sometimes more rapid, sometimes less. Death Valley used to be an Ocean. Greenland used to actually be green. And CA used to be fucking cold at once. There is nothing we can do about that. It doesn't make a difference if you drive a V10 or a 4 cylinder engine. There are more important things to look out for. Asteroids for example, or reduction of plastic bags that they give out for free almost everywhere in the US in ridiculous amounts, or reduction of electricity or stuff like that. It won't change our climate but it will be good for the environment.
In the 70s (or 80s I forgot) they printed in the news and in magazines that the next Ice Age was only years away... did anything happen? I don't think so...
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      02-26-2012, 06:50 PM   #79
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Ok show me that 99% agree. That's what the media trys to tell you, but it is not a fact. You will learn that in the next years. Oh and I can't watch FOX news...
Boom.

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/cli...ing-is-manmade
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      02-26-2012, 07:08 PM   #80
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I imagine the cost to repair a megcity car from an accident is going to be astronomical.
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      02-27-2012, 08:55 AM   #81
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Dude, it was a joke; but actually they do. Depends on how you look at the cycle of carbon in the environment.
Sure, but the CO2 debate as I understand it is centered largely around the argument that we have had plenty of it for eons without the need to have machines producing it. I.e. - in very rough and simplified form - animals process oxygen and emit CO2, while plants process CO2 and emit oxygen. All the excess CO2 that is the product of the modern industrialized world, then, is what is claimed to be the major issue ("too much of a good thing is a bad thing").
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      02-27-2012, 09:02 AM   #82
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The i3 is basically a occupant cell sitting on a aluminum subframe. I imagine BMW will use this or some very similar technique when it all trickles down the BMW brand line.
That makes sense, I am sure aluminum subframes will be used for the forseeable future. Still, going back to the original point you made about crumple zones, looking at how the car is constructed, it still appears to me that there is potential for the body shell as a whole to sustain fairly major damage even with the occupancy cell remaining largely in tact.

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A ski construction i'm not sure about but a ski pole usually has a different type of construction. It's usually not a woven fabric but a continuous fiber strand or group of fiber strands wrapped around like you see on a spool of thread. If you look at some of them closely you will see this, as well as the pattern made by the varying strand orientations. Same for a lot of race car suspension arms and links. Brake disc are and entirely different construction as well, I don't think they are repairable or should be.
Thanks for clearling that up. It is actually pretty interesting - the different techniques used for different types of parts. In the end, it is clear they will be pragmatic about it and design the car to be repairable where it makes sense while certain parts will just need to be replaced when damaged. Not too much different than today, though I am still far from convinced the transition to carbon fiber cars will be without its share of new challenges and resulting hiccups. I guess we'll see over the next decade or so.
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      02-27-2012, 09:21 PM   #83
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Yes because sitting on our asses is exactly what we need to do as a society. Let's just make more crap using the technology we already have. Lets not think outside the box or develop new ideas. Exactly!

How do you get out of bed in the morning??? I really don't understand this kind of logic.
You mad bro? I suggested a more AFFORDABLE alternative than using a lot of a very expensive material in an already expensive vehicle. In case you didn't know, developing new technologies does not happen overnight. It takes a lot of, what is that thing called again...time. So instead of getting all salty on me with a useless post like the one you posted, how about you think about what you want to say. I am coming from a business standpoint (because I am a businessman), so what I said makes sense to me. If you really want BMW to use new technologies and think outside the box, go design these new techs yourself.

Besides, how do you expect people not to sit on their asses when they have to make daily commutes to/from work that are MILES long? Bike the whole way? Be my guest, do what makes you happy.
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      02-28-2012, 10:44 AM   #84
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I wonder if parts like the crash bar etc. would be produced for the 3 series ... wouldn't it be awesome if you can get some carbon fiber parts to upgrade your car manufactured by bmw?
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      03-01-2012, 09:42 AM   #85
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I imagine the cost to repair a megcity car from an accident is going to be astronomical.
Reminds me of the joke I make when I have to go to the dealership and have something fixed and they say "it's a sealed unit you will have to replace the whole thing...", so I joke "That is a sealed unit sir, you are going to have to replace the whole car"
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      03-02-2012, 02:27 AM   #86
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Post Ok I meant something legitimate.

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Originally Posted by Blubaron79 View Post

The warming we all agree started over 10,000 years ago and is over 11 degrees C, What some are asking about is what portion of the 0.1 degree C increase since 1938 is to be blamed on man who produces almost 0.3% of the greenhouse gas.


Got more links too but guess you can't read them....

http://www.welt.de/dieweltbewegen/ar...de-vorbei.html

http://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentar...onsersatz.html
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      03-02-2012, 08:24 AM   #87
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Go read a few Patrick Michaels books and you'll understand why 99% of climatologists agree with each other. Dr. Michaels scientific studies of lake bed core samples shows there was 12% more CO2 in the atmosphere 10,000 years ago than there is today, and the Earth’s mean temperature was cooler by a few degrees that it is today.

What your issue is the climate is changing and you THINK it is bad. The Earth's climate has always changed, and will always change, regardless of what animals - and the processes they bring, live here. You're worried about keeping the climate the same for the next hundred or million years, why? The climate is going to change regardless; it is not going to change any more differently if you drive a Prius or a Suburban. 5 million years from now the Earth is going to be entirely different than it is today as it was totally different from today 5 million years ago.
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      03-20-2012, 03:06 PM   #88
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The argument of those who say we aren't doing harm to the earths atmosphere is about as logical as those who said that smoking is not bad for you.
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