BMW's Twin Turbo V8...

[Driver72]

Did quick search didn't see anything, but if I missed this before and it's old news I'm sorry.

So I'm browsing my new Automobile magazine and they are showing renderings of the new BMW 6 series, as well as the "updates" for the 2008 model.
Appears, to no big surprise our 335i engine is going to become the base engine in the 6 series as well.

But what caught my eye was an optional twin turbocharged V8 making 400 hp that will slot between our 300 hp TT I6 and the 500 V10.

Yes, I know the current NA V8 makes 360+ hp so "how could a twin turbocharged V8 only make 40 more hp"?

I'll guess two things:
1. It's a smaller V8 (probably 4.2-4.4 liters) instead of 4.8
2. Like our TT I6 , it's probably underrated by 20-25 hp and tq.

But I gotta tell you, a TT V8 would be absolutely SWEET.
It would be a PROcede away from the horsepower of the V10, and probably have more torque stock already.
Hope someone would start developing a LSD for this car the day it comes out, it would need one for sure!

[!Xoible]

doesnt M3's V8 produce more than 400 hp? that's the engine between I6TT and V10, right? why make another TT one that produce less power?

V8 tt? im not sure i like that idea jk

i'd like to see optimized turbo, like turbo per cyl like ol' porsches

[DFW_M]

Also, the M3 V8 is 4.0L, over 400HP, so...

[achien]

Originally Posted by mantisG35

doesnt M3's V8 produce more than 400 hp? that's the engine between I6TT and V10, right? why make another TT one that produce less power?

V8 tt? im not sure i like that idea jk

i'd like to see optimized turbo, like turbo per cyl like ol' porsches

This is called techonological innovation. A TT V8 DI gives you better gas mileage, for the same hp and torque.

You heard it here first, if the current TT V6 DI in the 3-series doesn't blow, I predict BMW may go to TT V8 DI and, possibly, TT V10 DI in the future.

[Driver72]

You don't need to "predict" it, as it's already reported (and posted here) that they will have a TT V8.

Guys, keep one thing in mind. The 414 hp NA 4.0 liter V8 they have is for the M3.
That's more of a race engine. They won't use that engine in non-M cars.
Furthermore a small displacement (as I predicted it would be 4.2-4.4 liter TT V9) would have equal HP, but gobs more torque. This engine would probably also weigh 75-85 lbs more than the 4.0 liter in the M3

They would never put this TT V8 in the 3 series.
As it appears, it will first debut in the 6 series.
Then it's a no brainer it will also be stuck into the 5 series and possibly the 7 series as well.
Furthermore, it would make a fantastic engine for the X5

I would be surprised if BMW dropped all their non-M naturally aspirated V8's from the line up, because surely their would be customers who wouldn't want turbocharged engines. But it's possible.

I see this:
635i/735i is TT I6 as base engine in 6 and 7 series
650i/750i is NA V8 (possibly current 4.8 liter) at 360 hp midline engine
655i/755i is TT V8 (400-410 hp rating) as upgraded V8 option
M6 is V10

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by achien

This is called techonological innovation. A TT V8 DI gives you better gas mileage, for the same hp and torque.

You heard it here first, if the current TT V6 DI in the 3-series doesn't blow, I predict BMW may go to TT V8 DI and, possibly, TT V10 DI in the future.

but that means the displacement will be less than M3's engine?

[Driver72]

No the displacement wouldn't be smaller than the M3 engine.
At 4.0 liters that's about the smallest V8 a company would make.
There are V6's of equal and larger displacement.

[Jonmartin]

I rather have the TT V8 over the M V8 anyday.

[satinghostrider]

Originally Posted by Jonmartin

I rather have the TT V8 over the M V8 anyday.

Amen to that!

[Ryan335]

Originally Posted by Driver72

You don't need to "predict" it, as it's already reported (and posted here) that they will have a TT V8.

Guys, keep one thing in mind. The 414 hp NA 4.0 liter V8 they have is for the M3.
That's more of a race engine. They won't use that engine in non-M cars.
Furthermore a small displacement (as I predicted it would be 4.2-4.4 liter TT V9) would have equal HP, but gobs more torque. This engine would probably also weigh 75-85 lbs more than the 4.0 liter in the M3

They would never put this TT V8 in the 3 series.
As it appears, it will first debut in the 6 series.
Then it's a no brainer it will also be stuck into the 5 series and possibly the 7 series as well.
Furthermore, it would make a fantastic engine for the X5

I would be surprised if BMW dropped all their non-M naturally aspirated V8's from the line up, because surely their would be customers who wouldn't want turbocharged engines. But it's possible.

I see this:
635i/735i is TT I6 as base engine in 6 and 7 series
650i/750i is NA V8 (possibly current 4.8 liter) at 360 hp midline engine
655i/755i is TT V8 (400-410 hp rating) as upgraded V8 option
M6 is V10

pretty good analysis but you will never see a 7er with a 6 cylinder

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by Ryan335

pretty good analysis but you will never see a 7er with a 6 cylinder

You may very well be right.
But keep in mind years ago they did, and so did Mercedes Benz S Class.

I think it would be a good move, for those people who want the 7 series size but may not care to have the most powerful engine in it.
The TT I6 makes more power than the 740i 4.4 V8 of just 5 years ago and nearly as much power as the 4.4 V8 in the 745i.
And the TT I6 would surely weigh less so it would outperform the 745i of only 2-3 years ago...plus get better gas mileage.

If I was a 50+ year old who wanted the 7 series space but didn't want to pay the V8 price premium or wanted to "save" a bit of gas over the V8, I'd jump into a 735i with the TT I6 in a second.

[Johnny3]

i don't think it's too far fetched to have the i6TT in a 7er. It's a stong enough engine and the gas mileage will be a selling point. I'm sure a hybrid type will be around soon, but it would be more expensive.

[Driver72]

I would be VERY surprised if BMW enters the hybrid market.
Their cars are sporting intention cars, not too worried about fuel sipping.
They are going the hydrogen route as well as clean diesel route.
But that's another topic for another thread all together.

This is about the (hopefully) reported TT V8.

Man, I'd get that in a 5 series car right away.
The car would probably be only about 200 pounds heavier than our 335i's but have 100 hp/tq more from the factory.
That means acceleration wise it would be equal to a v1.47 PROcede 335i from the factory!
Super sweet in the 6 series, but probably not worth spending the (guesstimated by me) $5-7K more for the 6 series over the 5 series.

[x5love]

I thought this was debuting on the X6 in spring... BMW has already announced the 6 series facelift and the engines stay the same according to there site.

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by x5love

I thought this was debuting on the X6 in spring... BMW has already announced the 6 series facelift and the engines stay the same according to there site.

yes, the engines stay the same for the 2008 facelift.
It's the next generation 6 series (I'd guess probably in spring 2009 as 2010 model) where the TT V8 is reported to be released.
The renderings keep the same sort of look as the facelifted 2008 model but are less edgy and more sleek/sexy. Kind of reminds me of the new Jaguar XKR from the side and rear.

[Cadillac Johnson]

This would mean that BMW would probly put a V12 into the next M5/M6. BMW has to be aware of the tuning potential of factory turbo motors, considering what's happend with the 335i.

I spose it's a similar situation that they are in now, with the 335i and M3. Although I would think that for the next gen M cars they are going to want to seperate them a little further. BMW has to know that the 335i is going to hurt M3 sales a little bit, I dont think they are going to do this again. This is all IMO of course, but once you start offering TTV8's it's hard to get hyped over an NA V10.

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by Cadillac Johnson

This would mean that BMW would probly put a V12 into the next M5/M6. BMW has to be aware of the tuning potential of factory turbo motors, considering what's happend with the 335i.

I spose it's a similar situation that they are in now, with the 335i and M3. Although I would think that for the next gen M cars they are going to want to seperate them a little further. BMW has to know that the 335i is going to hurt M3 sales a little bit, I dont think they are going to do this again. This is all IMO of course, but once you start offering TTV8's it's hard to get hyped over an NA V10.

I don't think they'll put a V12 in the next M5
The current V10 is an itty-bitty V10 at only 5.0 liters.
MANY, MANY V8's are larger than that. If anything they'll just bump up the displacement to say 5.2-5.4 liters and push out 550 hp.

But what BMW really needs to do with the M division is concentrate on weight loss.

With the TT engines going into non-M cars and the tunability of them to easily match the M-cars power outputs, what BMW can do is drop the weight of the M cars.

That means aluminum chassis. Sure it's expensive, but it's something that non-M cars can't "upgrade" to in the aftermarket.
Can you imagine dropping 200-250+ pounds off the M5 or upcoming M3.

With model specific parts like (upgraded brakes, suspension, wheels, tires, seats, interior pieces, body panels, etc and with the high revving naturally aspirated motors that rev like race cars and sound killer, there is still lots of exclusivity to the M cars.
Next step IMHO, super strong aluminum chassis that drop the weight of the M cars by 200-250+ pounds.

[achien]

Originally Posted by Driver72

...
Next step IMHO, super strong aluminum chassis that drop the weight of the M cars by 200-250+ pounds.

If BMW is taking M-series the weight-reduction route, carbon fibre chassis, though more expensive, looks more likely the option to take.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by Driver72

No the displacement wouldn't be smaller than the M3 engine.
At 4.0 liters that's about the smallest V8 a company would make.
There are V6's of equal and larger displacement.

okay, so let me get this straight. the M3 V8 already gets more than 400 hp with no charger on it. Now they want to produce a similarly sized engine, with a TT setup to produce less hp? does that make sense to you?

[CnoteMD]

Originally Posted by mantisG35

okay, so let me get this straight. the M3 V8 already gets more than 400 hp with no charger on it. Now they want to produce a similarly sized engine, with a TT setup to produce less hp? does that make sense to you?

Well, the E46 M3 produced 333hp from a 3.2L I-6. During the same production period, the E90/92 335i produced 300hp from a twin-turbo 3.0 I-6. The regular 3 series and the M series are two very different markets.

[Cadillac Johnson]

Originally Posted by Driver72

I don't think they'll put a V12 in the next M5
The current V10 is an itty-bitty V10 at only 5.0 liters.
MANY, MANY V8's are larger than that. If anything they'll just bump up the displacement to say 5.2-5.4 liters and push out 550 hp.

But what BMW really needs to do with the M division is concentrate on weight loss.

Well see that's the problem, .5L per cylinder is pretty standard for modern engines. M motors have always been high revving motors, they could increase the bore, but they cant do much, if anything, with the stroke. If they increase the stroke that will increase piston speed and rev limits will come down. I dont think that will be acceptible to BMW. Increasing the bore, would help displacement, but doesn't really do much for power on an NA motor. With FI, increasing the bore has more of an advantage.

Another thing to think about is what Audi and MB are doing, the RS6 is getting a TT V10, MB's have TT V12's. BMW likes to go a different route, and without FI, and without loosing what all M cars have been, they really can only add additional cylinders. Look at the E39 M5 vs. the new one, 4L V8 400hp vs. 5L V10 500hp. Keeping with this trend would make more sense to me.

As far as the weight thing, I completely agree, M cars are too heavy. Imagine the new M3's V8 in the E36 or E46 chassis, maybe the M5/M6 V10 in the E39 chassis. Either option would murder the current versions. Before BMW brought back FI, more power, a decent suspension, and some body work was enough to set them apart. Since power is easier to come by with FI on the lower models, they need to focus on making those additional horses more efficient by loosing some fat and upping the power to weight ratio.

[Ryan335]

Originally Posted by cars4lyfe

Not true, I believe in China I saw a few 730i's ...I even saw a 530LI (long version)

China maybe, but in the states no. The 7 is BMWs flagship luxury car... flagship luxury cars in america have V8s and up. IMHO if they put a 6 cylinder in it would dilute the brand/ model image....