Are BMW's best days (and cars) in the past?

[Obioban]

I know laser headlights are what make or break my car purchasing decisions :P

Best car in the price range is debatable (I don't agree), but it's not the question the thread is asking either way.

[cc3]

BMW seems obsessed with market share- we must be bigger than Audi and Mercedes at all cost. In the UK there are some amazing discounts on offer, which is fine but it is destroying second hand values. BMW becoming a bit like Ford and GM, in that they have enormous factories to keep busy and must shift product.

Before discount some of the list prices are starting to get too expensive

[Kayani_1]

Scott26 we all know you are the BMW insider and your livelihood depends on supporting them. Thus, such comments. But I know even deep down you know that right now you are being full of it.

To say that nothing stood out when you guys drove an ATS, does not suit the guy who we all like to hear from on these forums as you are our tie with BMW brand. If after driving the ATS the glaring abomination of EPS steering setup in F30 BMW 3 series and overly soft suspension did not stand out to you. Then I have lost faith in you to maybe give BMW upper management a pure feedback.

I mean which head honcho at BMW approved of this life less steering setup to be used in BMW's starting out with the BMW 5 series and now ruining the BMW 3 series. How do you approve of such horrible setup and how do you let a legendary iconic car leave your factories with such horrible setup. Whoever, approved of it should be punished by cutting their salary in half and banishing them to spend hours and hours behind the wheels of a Lotus Exige S or Porsche 997 GT3 to learn what a good steering setup is and how it enhances the driving experience in every which way or you could just put them in the in house E92 M3 GTS.

The new BMW philosophy of chasing the masses is a horrible excuse for rolling out German Toyota Camry called F30 3 series or German Toyota Avalon called F10 BMW 5 series.

The biggest thing you guys don't realize that your sales have been ever increasing because of not this diluted sham that you all are creating in this lastest generation F30 and F10. People are buying your cars in drove based on past heritage and badge image. The more you dilute your cars the more you will lose that edge. Yes, while Toyota Corolla could be the leader in sales no one wakes up dreaming to get behind the wheel of one. Only reason people buy the Toyota Corolla in droves is because it is reliable and affordable.

If you want masses to buy your cars stick to your heritage of making outstanding cars as you did in the past. One could get a perfect balance of sports and luxury by knocking at the door steps of a marquee called BMW. You do not have to turn away from that.Offer great cars do not reinvent yourself just for the sake of it. Because you had it going for yourself. All you guys had to do to bring masses in was to bring the price point down a bit and make BMW more affordable. Second, make the cars more rock solid on reliability. The droves would have bought a well built, slightly cheaper, and rock sold reliable BMW cars that offered the BMW core values with unmatched balance of sports first and luxury second. No one did it better then you guys of offering a good balance. Why your upper management has decided to turn BMW cars into boring toasters is beyond me.

I for one have had many BMW's in my household for more then a decade. Yet, now I am contemplating to give others a try. Because you guys have dilute the brand to the point where the difference is blurred. I hope you spending this much time with us buyers can take our voice to BMW. Many of us are not happy with how you guys have ruined the 5 series and 3 series, once a class leading legendary iconic. cars that everybody wanted to emulate. This is coming form a guy who has owned both versions for many years. I have put my money where my mouth is and supported BMW with purchases of multiple 5 series, 3 series, 7 series, and X5. Now I guess my last hope is that you guys wake up and restore the balance back with M235i, M2, M3, and M4. Please start out by fixing the overly soft core nature of the 3 series and 5 series no one want a luxo land barge at least not with a BMW badge. Please, get rid of the EPS setup until it is fixed and worthy of belonging in a legendary iconic cars like BMW 5 series and BMW 3 series. If you are not going to ditch the EPS and keep it. Then please put greater resources behind fixing its inherent flaws. Also, offer the base car to be good from the start. No one should have to spend thousands just to make a car how it should have came from the factory to begin with. The case and point is the C7 stingray in base form it is still an awesome machine. The options offered on C7 are so price friendly and offer so much for so little that you just can't say no. No buyer likes the feeling of being ripped off. However, when you start building a BMW the base version is so horrendous that you end up wasting tons of money to just get it some what decent. By this point you feel like you have been ripped off by a brand who is on purpose releasing utterly boring base versions.

Last but not least please distance the coupe interiors and exteriors farther from the sedan interiors and exteriors and take more risk with the coupe styling's both inside and out. Specially after you guys went so far to distance them by giving them new names. Also, put every resource available in increasing the horrible reliability of your cars. The biggest flaw with BMW's with past or present has been less then stellar reliability. Here take a page from Toyota it will bring in masses of sales without compromising core beliefs. Otherwise with the gains that GM and Ford as well as some other manufacturers are making you will soon be just another not so special offering that is overly expensive, overwhelmingly unreliable, and utterly boring and lacking that true heritage that made your brand a success.



A passionate plea from a die hard BMW fan

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Last year when we were in the USA for the i3 Coupe launch at LAIAS. We sought out an ATS or four to evaluate given recent US auto media reports on the class-leading abilities of the car. We found nothing that stood out . The car has since being tested back in Germany again nothing stood out against the 3er.

Granted that the CTS is not in Germany and I will not be in LA this year , but Tokyo yet so an opinion cannot be given.
But that last quote sums up the problem.

They are to busy wanting a BMW that they forget about originality. They seem too pre-occupied that they need the car to be a BMW that at the end of the day it is a BMW facsimile with nothing to stand but its a better BMW.

And that 5er review is this the pre LCi model? Because the outcome in Europe is very much different with the changes on the LCi. The steering changes being one of the most notable changes.

[Ezio]

i had a E90 328i and now a e92 m3. my mother has a F30 335i.

i actually the E90 fit and finish more.

[Kayani_1]

+1

Man I like your avatar. Just got a assassin creed for PS4.

Originally Posted by Ezio

i had a E90 328i and now a e92 m3. my mother has a F30 335i.

i actually the E90 fit and finish more.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

+1

Man I like your avatar. Just got a assassin creed for PS4.

yolo

[ybbiz34]

This thread has been cleaned up.

The personal attacks stop now.

[ska///235i]

last thing i want in a bmw forum is bmw workers promoting their popaganda

what did this forum became? is this own by bmw now?

[neversummer78]

Originally Posted by geko29

I think the E46 and E39 are the best mainstream cars BMW has made. Even though the d has more than double the power, I still miss how much fun my little 323i was to drive. It was solid, quiet, and totally reliable too.

I actually regret selling it, and might have to start looking for an E39 M5 to fill the void.

I miss my E46 323ci from 2000. It was great looking then and still great looking today. The interior was elegance, functional, and moderately driver oriented. I had to sell it due to many personal reasons but not one on reliability, and I am too regretting it until today. I would have it as my daily driver if I still own it today.

[davesaddiction]

Resurrecting an old thread because of how disappointed I am with present-day BMW after what I just read in the April issue of C&D (435i vs S5 comparison).

The Audi "feels like the better balanced and livelier car".

"The BMW's numbness saps driver confidence, as the car doesn't provide enough information to form a complete picture of what's happening at the tires."

"BMW is going soft on its old priorities, just as others are zeroing in."

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by davesaddiction

Resurrecting an old thread because of how disappointed I am with present-day BMW after what I just read in the April issue of C&D (435i vs S5 comparison).

The Audi "feels like the better balanced and livelier car".

"The BMW's numbness saps driver confidence, as the car doesn't provide enough information to form a complete picture of what's happening at the tires."

"BMW is going soft on its old priorities, just as others are zeroing in."

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

Its the complete opposite in Europe.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by davesaddiction

Resurrecting an old thread because of how disappointed I am with present-day BMW after what I just read in the April issue of C&D (435i vs S5 comparison).

The Audi "feels like the better balanced and livelier car".

"The BMW's numbness saps driver confidence, as the car doesn't provide enough information to form a complete picture of what's happening at the tires."

"BMW is going soft on its old priorities, just as others are zeroing in."

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

Just had an f30 as a loaner and was reminded once again how utterly boring their cars have become.

[Tallest]

Originally Posted by geko29

I still miss how much fun my little 323i was to drive. It was solid, quiet, and totally reliable too.

I actually regret selling it, and might have to start looking for an E39 M5 to fill the void.

Wouldn't buy the M5 E39 if your opinion of BMW reliability comes via owning a 323i... You might be in for a shock in terms of repair costs, never mind the maintenance... you know how you dont upgrade to big brake kit or BMW Performance parts because expensive? You'll be doing all a lot of that on M5 because all parts are top level.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Malbolge

Wouldn't buy the M5 E39 if your opinion of BMW reliability comes via owning a 323i... You might be in for a shock in terms of repair costs, never mind the maintenance... you know how you dont upgrade to big brake kit or BMW Performance parts because expensive? You'll be doing all a lot of that on M5 because all parts are top level.

Eh, I have an e39 M5, and it's pretty bullet proof so long as you stay on top of upkeep. It can bite you in the ass if you're neglectful, though.

That said...

The e39 is NOT tossable/light on it's feet like the e46. It's very much a comfortable car that can go fast rather than a fast car you can DD.

Which is why I find the e39 M5 and e46 M3 to be perfect complements to each other. They do entirely different things well. Both are awesome in their own way.

The e46 330i ZHP is an excellent middle ground between the two cars, though obviously without the acceleration. But, none of the increased M running costs, either.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by Obioban

Just had an f30 as a loaner and was reminded once again how utterly boring their cars have become.

Hate to tell you this, but I have hated every F30 loaner I have had yet happy to get into MY F30. Loaners are not optioned to be fun cars to drive and the F30 has a softer base than ever-yuck.

[davesaddiction]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Hate to tell you this, but I have hated every F30 loaner I have had yet happy to get into MY F30. Loaners are not optioned to be fun cars to drive and the F30 has a softer base than ever-yuck.

I'm glad the sport package and manual make things better. Still, the point is, in the past, even the most basic BMW was a joy to drive for an enthusiast. As far as I can tell, those days are gone.

I see yours is for sale. What's next?

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by davesaddiction

I'm glad the sport package and manual make things better. Still, the point is, in the past, even the most basic BMW was a joy to drive for an enthusiast. As far as I can tell, those days are gone.

I see yours is for sale. What's next?

I agree, even base E46 and E90 cars had more BMW feel to them and the F30 REQUIRES certain packages now.

We wanted a wagon and no car payment. WE test drove the Focus ST and a variety of other small hatches and wagons, everything was too small, too shitty inside, or just bland. I got a '06 Saab 9-5 wagon with a stick-threw on a tune etc and began addressing the terrible handling lol. Love it though, the size and utility, and no one sees a gray 300+hp wagon coming.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Hate to tell you this, but I have hated every F30 loaner I have had yet happy to get into MY F30. Loaners are not optioned to be fun cars to drive and the F30 has a softer base than ever-yuck.

I had a f30 manual rwd 335i m sport for 2 days. Also awful.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I had a f30 manual rwd 335i m sport for 2 days. Also awful.

I liked the 335 only for the N55 which is more charismatic but it drove worse than my car. The nose felt heavier, less willing to change direction and I preferred my steering.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

I liked the 335 only for the N55 which is more charismatic but it drove worse than my car. The nose felt heavier, less willing to change direction and I preferred my steering.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of that engine at all. I don't really like the n55, either (or anything with turbos), but I particularly don't like the 4 cylinder... So I have trouble believing it would have improved my experience (which isn't to say I'm opposed to the smaller engine models-- the N52 is on of my favorite engines of all time). And the eps is crap in both cars either way :P

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by Obioban

Yeah, I'm not a fan of that engine at all. I don't really like the n55, either (or anything with turbos), but I particularly don't like the 4 cylinder... So I have trouble believing it would have improved my experience (which isn't to say I'm opposed to the smaller engine models-- the N52 is on of my favorite engines of all time). And the eps is crap in both cars either way :P

As an FYI, EPS has been updated for '12-13 cars. Owners report steering is much improved after the update. Doubt you'll be smitten but something to keep in mind.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

As an FYI, EPS has been updated for '12-13 cars. Owners report steering is much improved after the update. Doubt you'll be smitten but something to keep in mind.

My 328i loaner was a 2014, so...