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      01-03-2015, 12:11 AM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cs4444 View Post
I disagree I'm not a fan of Audi's, I think the Prologue concept was very underwelming. It looks like a stretched version of their current design language which they have used for the last decade, and the rear has a Buick feel to it.
I agree on the A8....also
SCLASS is by far way ugly and nowhere near proper design definition...IMPALA Dashboard for $150k+??? No thanks!!!
.I don't even understand why folks who are a bit disappointed with the likely new 7er, suddenly admire SClass???!!!
For those friends who like the Sclass design, please save your energy, go and DO buy one SClass instead of 7er...
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      01-03-2015, 12:25 AM   #310
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This whole, "iPad as a NAV Screen" thing the Germans are doing is just stupid as hell. Do they honestly think not integrating the screen into the dash is cool or some shit?
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      01-03-2015, 02:00 AM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cs4444 View Post
I disagree I'm not a fan of Audi's, I think the Prologue concept was very underwelming. It looks like a stretched version of their current design language which they have used for the last decade, and the rear has a Buick feel to it.
I agree on Audi; the Prologue is a facelifted design of old; same as this new BMW 7 series.
In other words BMW is going the same route as Audi; they even copied Audi's "minimalist" interior design language.
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      01-03-2015, 02:22 AM   #312
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Very................boring
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      01-03-2015, 02:47 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by 335ddd View Post
its a little sad that we need m sport just to look better. S class regardless of std / amg looks great. maybe the whole design is a problem?
Have you seen Audi without S Line?
Also Merc without AMG Pack doesn't inspire me at all.
It is a trend by german manufacturers: VW introduced R Line more aggressive now. Volvo has an R Line too and others will follow. This is a great marketing point!
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      01-03-2015, 03:27 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by shanecarmaster1 View Post
Thank you I could've gone even deeper, especially with that loaner I had and all the bs submodels that BMW feels are necessary. Front wheel drive? Minivan looking "Active Tourers"? The only thing active will be me and many other loyal BMW customers settling a deal at another manufacturer's dealership. BMW no longer has my business because I will not be taken for a fool and I simply don't enjoy their cars. 9 Series? What are we luxurious now? I thought we were sporty?
Have you driven the new 7 and we don't know? Have you seen a comparative test yet? Or your post is full of
AT has a specific market! Have you seen the sales of B Class and VW Sportsvan?!
9 series will be the rival for Maybach based S Class, but will be a complete new model not a stupid overpriced longer version! You're at least an ignorant with no vision.
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      01-03-2015, 03:36 AM   #315
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Anticlimax

Sorry, but it is too evolutionary. The s class was a revolution and we needed a stunner. After seeing a the luxury concept I really was ready for something more.
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      01-03-2015, 04:06 AM   #316
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We have in menu: new engines, lighter car and a complete new interface!
STILL to be shown: proper pics!
I don't think we can say much more yet!
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      01-03-2015, 05:33 AM   #317
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I like the back, it looks good needs more photos to judge the front + side.
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      01-03-2015, 06:34 AM   #318
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So we had a brief meeting this morning which include said representatives from the cargo company involved.
Let's just say that the ones that took the pictures , their reflections are visible on the car itself.
This was an advanced stage prototype that was to be used in order to showcase for the global distribution network as it stands the 7er is in its final stage of development which is why you will see it shortly braving the winter testing grounds of Sweden still in camouflage. And no the launch is not being brought forward as this this more or less something similar like being caught whilst on a media shoot.

On a personal reflection,the car in the pictures is not seen in profile but an angle in which several cars today can look ungainly and more condensed when viewed at similar angles. This is definitely one of those cases.
Another is the size of the photographs as if they have been cropped that they shorten the car itself.

Despite the profile you seen in the pictures this here is still the finished car even in its outline.
This is the car that will launch to the market. This is what you are getting.


As a question of perspective the headlights and front section of the car are in extreme close-up. Anything photographed this close will be much larger than it actually is.
But one thing I previously mentioned which can be seen in that scoop photograph is the detail of the Laser Light and indeed the internal workings that full the light unit such as the angular piece beside the grille and metallic surface at the base of the headlights. This fills the light unit so it does not look sparse.

Yes it is the interior of the new car but there are specifications to choose from as well as BMW Individual, the interior is minimalist and lounge like to avoid conflict with the more ornate hand crafted elegance found within a Rolls-Royce.
Mercedes have gone out to put the car at this level which it succeeds. But they can , BMW cannot do something similar and choose not to because they want to form a more distinctive line between its two brands so that they sit apart and not on each other. Yes new metallic switchgear replaces previous plastic the coating is of a very high quality as is the damping effect of the switchgear itself. These pictures do not show the full detail and also full specification available to customers.
This the entry 730d or if you will the European markets best selling 7er so it is specified to a degree in which base 7er customers option their car.

The new 7er rides with very stylish wheel options some can go up to 21" this car is using a smaller diameter rim and for transport has shipping blocks attached. In most cases a good size stylish wheel design can make or break a car as is some of the options on the F01 not only reflected luxury but also a sportier appearance.

The G11 will also offer wheel options that reflect its character.

The big picture however is although you think you have seen everything but actually you still have seen nothing and for that you have to wait for the official pictures which will show how good the car's appearance actually is.
Have patience.

The 7er is the lead car for innovation it gives the BMW customer or enthusiast the preview for what will be on their next 5er and 3er. It starts at the top and filters down the range bringing access to much used technology in a compact or even city car. The affordable luxury segment needs additional product sustainability. Its a segment that can be volatile in economic situations as people tend to downsize.
The upper segment is very much protected as customers in this market are more or less immune to such situations and would continue to purchase even in a bad economy. Additional sustainability for product will be supplied to cover all areas of the market in order to provide that particular demographic that always wants something new and far more distinctive and exclusive from current offerings. This is a segment which is growing but between 7er and the Rolls-Royce Ghost there is not a gap but a chasm.

The 9er will be our Maybach.
It will be a car that will not just offer passengers rejuvenation. It has been made clear from the VFL events across the globe since its introduction in Beijing that they want it to be a drivers car first and foremost and exclusive lounge secondary.
If we compare and contrast with the CS it was more difficult because on that concepts feedback some where unsure that such a car would be able to hold the BMW brand in such a high status. With the VFL the time passing has proved that there is a BMW customer that wants all typical BMW attributes but in a more exclusive sensual setting.
Feedback on this car has been very favourable with some wanting to leave the cheque right now.

VFL is a symbol of a changing market , sports coupes are being turned practical and SUVs are becoming more luxurious challenging the luxury sedan segment for sales. Since the introduction of the CS Concept to the Vision Future Luxury concept the 7years has been enough time to see how the market has changed and adapt accordingly.

Early sketches promise that the overall look and ambience will be retained but some of the rear details will be more conventional. The rear doors still look to be rear hinged as the CFRP fabricated module structure will be retained as it will be used for the next generation of Rolls-Royce Phantom. Sharing the structure allows for more flexibility across both BMW and Rolls-Royce and is cost effective. Although it will be a BMW , distinctive in every direction. The bridge segment to Rolls-Royce.

Vision Future Luxury is perceived as a "Vision" car which means the idea remains but progress will occur to bring it to production reality. Witness the Vision EfficientDynamics and its progress journey to the i8 or indeed the Vision ConnectedDrive which you will see later in 2015 has progressed into the upcoming jointly developed BMW-Toyota sports cars with a new philosophy to be as cutting edge , distinctive and visually appealing as the BMWi cars.


Innovation appeals to customers today and is one rule for BMW product to be driven by innovation and progress.
You just have to look at how progress has come from any car that used to 90% mechanical to today which substitutes such engineering in favour of more electric and computer software to assist the driver.
Then you have to look at the BMWi cars in which they are interesting because they are distinctive in order to sell and promote the philosophy of electric mobility. Something our competitors failed to understand when they resorted to simple and less costly electrification.
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      01-03-2015, 06:36 AM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N & M View Post
Sorry, but it is too evolutionary. The s class was a revolution and we needed a stunner. After seeing a the luxury concept I really was ready for something more.
The S-Klasse is not a revolution in design its an evolution of the W221.
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      01-03-2015, 06:40 AM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSTYLE View Post
All I want to know...

Is WTF happened to THIS:





And THIS:






Do you mean to tell me that BMW could not tweak these GORGEOUS designs and make it fit/work for the road???

Hell YES they could have!!! They chose NOT to. But the burning question is why...?

The Gran Lusso was conceived in 2012-2013 with the VFL in 2013.
The G11 was frozen in design in mid 2012.
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      01-03-2015, 07:02 AM   #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noobish View Post
I would not devote time answering these posts if i were Scott26.
Just let the hate bandwagon go on and wait until the car is released officially and we have some high res pictures.

People always complain when they release a new model. (Forum members)
Oh wait, humans hate change . . . good or bad we tend to hate it.
Maybe some of you guys dont like the design or it doesn't inspire you anything but it probably does for someone else.
Dont waste your time and effort.
No I like to answer .
In fact I recommend in our product briefings we build The Ultimate Driving "TIME" Machine so many of you can go back to a less convoluted and simpler era.

What is astounding to my colleagues not only @ BMW but in this and other forums in the US and Europe. Is the over-reaction to a few grainy pictures that show something but at the same time relatively nothing.

You might digress at what BMW has come but it is adapting to what you the customer has become , the same goes for any other manufacturer.
There is a constant myopic view to what BMW is in North America but in Europe we provide customers with several entry level cars with the basics of specification which the "luxury sensitive" US market would not accept. But that is how the 3er and the 5er are the benchmarks for their respective segment.
Because they sell in such high volume to customers who want a BMW.

I have explained the purpose and benefits of the FWD cars numerous times that I will not again. The Active Tourer is good to drive , good to own and good to use in a practical way we have sold around 10,000 units since launch in October.

As for the next generation there is a new market above Affordable luxury the segment which the 7er and S-Klasse reside in. And that segment will be investigated by BMW the first vehicle will be the new luxury X7 SAV again determined because luxury SUVs are challenging luxury sedans and extra product sustainability will be required for the 7er.
We will see more results of product sustainability for the luxury market in a concept this coming April in Shanghai.
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      01-03-2015, 07:50 AM   #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post

What is astounding to my colleagues not only @ BMW but in this and other forums in the US and Europe. Is the over-reaction to a few grainy pictures that show something but at the same time relatively nothing.

There is a constant myopic view to what BMW is in North America but in Europe we provide customers with several entry level cars with the basics of specification which the "luxury sensitive" US market would not accept. But that is how the 3er and the 5er are the benchmarks for their respective segment.
Look, 3er is not a benchmark, anymore; the reaction of customers to it is similar as to this "new" or better said facelifted 7er.
The BMW 3er lost more than 20% sales in 2014 compared to 2013!
Numbers are for the home German market!! Speaking about a "benchmark" car on its home-market in it's second year of life!!! catastrophe
In UK you force the 3er down customers throats with huge discounts, since they are ditching it for the remade version of the 3er, which is the 4er Gran Coupe.

In other words, the BMW management is so occupied with the internal "holistic" approach in career and decision making, Stephan's Quandt handwork, that one wonders, if BMW is going to finish where the Quandt saved it (from being sold to Mercedes; only that this time around the buyers are going to be Chinese).

Last edited by Antares; 01-03-2015 at 08:06 AM..
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      01-03-2015, 09:10 AM   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
So we had a brief meeting this morning which include said representatives from the cargo company involved.
Let's just say that the ones that took the pictures , their reflections are visible on the car itself
Uh Oh

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      01-03-2015, 09:10 AM   #324
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1.BMW needs better exteriors, cars look to much alike with each other (look at MB, each car has a distinct look!)
2.BMW definetly needs BETTER interiors ! they've been stuck with the same interior design for ages, it's very outdated.
just compare the interior of the 3 series with the new C class ! the 3 series looks 20 years behind.Maybe same could be to G11 compared to the new S class.
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      01-03-2015, 09:23 AM   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Since the introduction of the CS Concept to the Vision Future Luxury concept the 7years has been enough time to see how the market has changed and adapt accordingly.
Does this mean there is no room between the 7 Series sedan and the 9 Series sedan for an 8 Series Gran Coupe 4 door coupe as realization of the CS Concept?
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      01-03-2015, 11:03 AM   #326
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Looks like Kia K9 lol
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      01-03-2015, 11:06 AM   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antares View Post
Look, 3er is not a benchmark, anymore; the reaction of customers to it is similar as to this "new" or better said facelifted 7er.
The BMW 3er lost more than 20% sales in 2014 compared to 2013!
Numbers are for the home German market!! Speaking about a "benchmark" car on its home-market in it's second year of life!!! catastrophe
In UK you force the 3er down customers throats with huge discounts, since they are ditching it for the remade version of the 3er, which is the 4er Gran Coupe.

In other words, the BMW management is so occupied with the internal "holistic" approach in career and decision making, Stephan's Quandt handwork, that one wonders, if BMW is going to finish where the Quandt saved it (from being sold to Mercedes; only that this time around the buyers are going to be Chinese).
Ok I will bite.



The 3er is the benchmark for the segment everyone looks to the 3er .
Its the benchmark because it is proficient in everything expected of this car , and the customer loves it. And they will continue to love it when the LCi appears next summer as it address its minor issues but also extends its greatness with BMWs new superb range of engines . Although engines is not a problem for the 3er as the standard engines are still the benchmark even so that the minuses of the new C-Klasse seem to be its engines. As the main highlight.

Of course sales are down in Europe as a matter of fact for all manufacturers its also approaching mid-life and was not uncommon for the E90 either when approaching LCi as the new A4 and C-Klasse had just launched.
The UK market is not as full strength as it was before the economic crisis , therefore incentives are a given they also are advertising incentives and discounts for the new C-Klasse as well having just done some quick research.

The Gran Coupe as is the Gran Turismo full profit cars because they share the same modular matrix so we make money as well as a regular 3er as well.
These introductions have increased the profit margin for the whole 3er portfolio which with all variants tops out as 10 models * an increase of 3 models to make the 3er the most profitable car in its segment.

* BMW 3er /BMW 3er Li /BMW 3er Touring/BMW 3er Gran Turismo/BMW M3
BMW 4er Coupe /BMW 4er Cabrio/BMW 4er Gran Coupe/BMW M4 Coupe/BMW M4 Cabrio.
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      01-03-2015, 12:08 PM   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vortexz View Post
1.BMW needs better exteriors, cars look to much alike with each other (look at MB, each car has a distinct look!)
2.BMW definetly needs BETTER interiors ! they've been stuck with the same interior design for ages, it's very outdated.
just compare the interior of the 3 series with the new C class ! the 3 series looks 20 years behind.Maybe same could be to G11 compared to the new S class.
I want what you are smoking.... You REALLY think that the C class is different than the S class? I dont think there has been that much similarity between the two in the last four generations since the C was introduced.
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      01-03-2015, 12:11 PM   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
So we had a brief meeting this morning which include said representatives from the cargo company involved.
Let's just say that the ones that took the pictures , their reflections are visible on the car itself.
This was an advanced stage prototype that was to be used in order to showcase for the global distribution network as it stands the 7er is in its final stage of development which is why you will see it shortly braving the winter testing grounds of Sweden still in camouflage. And no the launch is not being brought forward as this this more or less something similar like being caught whilst on a media shoot.

On a personal reflection,the car in the pictures is not seen in profile but an angle in which several cars today can look ungainly and more condensed when viewed at similar angles. This is definitely one of those cases.
Another is the size of the photographs as if they have been cropped that they shorten the car itself.

Despite the profile you seen in the pictures this here is still the finished car even in its outline.
This is the car that will launch to the market. This is what you are getting.


As a question of perspective the headlights and front section of the car are in extreme close-up. Anything photographed this close will be much larger than it actually is.
But one thing I previously mentioned which can be seen in that scoop photograph is the detail of the Laser Light and indeed the internal workings that full the light unit such as the angular piece beside the grille and metallic surface at the base of the headlights. This fills the light unit so it does not look sparse.

Yes it is the interior of the new car but there are specifications to choose from as well as BMW Individual, the interior is minimalist and lounge like to avoid conflict with the more ornate hand crafted elegance found within a Rolls-Royce.
Mercedes have gone out to put the car at this level which it succeeds. But they can , BMW cannot do something similar and choose not to because they want to form a more distinctive line between its two brands so that they sit apart and not on each other. Yes new metallic switchgear replaces previous plastic the coating is of a very high quality as is the damping effect of the switchgear itself. These pictures do not show the full detail and also full specification available to customers.
This the entry 730d or if you will the European markets best selling 7er so it is specified to a degree in which base 7er customers option their car.

The new 7er rides with very stylish wheel options some can go up to 21" this car is using a smaller diameter rim and for transport has shipping blocks attached. In most cases a good size stylish wheel design can make or break a car as is some of the options on the F01 not only reflected luxury but also a sportier appearance.

The G11 will also offer wheel options that reflect its character.

The big picture however is although you think you have seen everything but actually you still have seen nothing and for that you have to wait for the official pictures which will show how good the car's appearance actually is.
Have patience.

The 7er is the lead car for innovation it gives the BMW customer or enthusiast the preview for what will be on their next 5er and 3er. It starts at the top and filters down the range bringing access to much used technology in a compact or even city car. The affordable luxury segment needs additional product sustainability. Its a segment that can be volatile in economic situations as people tend to downsize.
The upper segment is very much protected as customers in this market are more or less immune to such situations and would continue to purchase even in a bad economy. Additional sustainability for product will be supplied to cover all areas of the market in order to provide that particular demographic that always wants something new and far more distinctive and exclusive from current offerings. This is a segment which is growing but between 7er and the Rolls-Royce Ghost there is not a gap but a chasm.

The 9er will be our Maybach.
It will be a car that will not just offer passengers rejuvenation. It has been made clear from the VFL events across the globe since its introduction in Beijing that they want it to be a drivers car first and foremost and exclusive lounge secondary.
If we compare and contrast with the CS it was more difficult because on that concepts feedback some where unsure that such a car would be able to hold the BMW brand in such a high status. With the VFL the time passing has proved that there is a BMW customer that wants all typical BMW attributes but in a more exclusive sensual setting.
Feedback on this car has been very favourable with some wanting to leave the cheque right now.

VFL is a symbol of a changing market , sports coupes are being turned practical and SUVs are becoming more luxurious challenging the luxury sedan segment for sales. Since the introduction of the CS Concept to the Vision Future Luxury concept the 7years has been enough time to see how the market has changed and adapt accordingly.

Early sketches promise that the overall look and ambience will be retained but some of the rear details will be more conventional. The rear doors still look to be rear hinged as the CFRP fabricated module structure will be retained as it will be used for the next generation of Rolls-Royce Phantom. Sharing the structure allows for more flexibility across both BMW and Rolls-Royce and is cost effective. Although it will be a BMW , distinctive in every direction. The bridge segment to Rolls-Royce.

Vision Future Luxury is perceived as a "Vision" car which means the idea remains but progress will occur to bring it to production reality. Witness the Vision EfficientDynamics and its progress journey to the i8 or indeed the Vision ConnectedDrive which you will see later in 2015 has progressed into the upcoming jointly developed BMW-Toyota sports cars with a new philosophy to be as cutting edge , distinctive and visually appealing as the BMWi cars.


Innovation appeals to customers today and is one rule for BMW product to be driven by innovation and progress.
You just have to look at how progress has come from any car that used to 90% mechanical to today which substitutes such engineering in favour of more electric and computer software to assist the driver.
Then you have to look at the BMWi cars in which they are interesting because they are distinctive in order to sell and promote the philosophy of electric mobility. Something our competitors failed to understand when they resorted to simple and less costly electrification.
Would the original launch date now hurt them?? There is a lot of interest this unintentional leak has caused; good or bad this is free publicity and i am sure people/ fans are eagerly awaiting better pics/ details on the G11
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      01-03-2015, 12:20 PM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vortexz View Post
1.BMW needs better exteriors, cars look to much alike with each other (look at MB, each car has a distinct look!)
2.BMW definetly needs BETTER interiors ! they've been stuck with the same interior design for ages, it's very outdated.
just compare the interior of the 3 series with the new C class ! the 3 series looks 20 years behind.Maybe same could be to G11 compared tob the new S class.
I love outdated BMW interiors, the new S class interior looks hideous especially with those two lcd screens, it's an appliance. I hope BMW doesnt become more like M-B.

it's a car not a smart phone, I dont need redundant information i already have on my phone



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