Doug DeMuro: Please Stop With the Fake Badges

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Clearly an M car

That is if M stands for Minivan

[RugbyBro]

Thinking about adding this GTS badge to my trunk...

[Autobacs]

M whatever on non-M cars is all marketing driven IMO because of the popularity of the M cars. Same as the Lexus F series. They add "F sport" to put it a notch above the base models.

Having said that, I can't think of any of my circle of auto enthusiasts that will confuse an M340i with an M3 or an IS F sport with an ISF. The differences are significant.

[4Hockey4]

lol its amazing folks still think "M" stands for the motorsport program started in 60's and not a modified trim level. (and has been for awhile)

It is a high performance model, above the base...but I mean Mustang GT doesnt equal what in did in 1969

smh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M

[Sight22]

Lol people getting mad at owners over what Merc and BMW designate their own cars as. And a base M3 costs 5K more than my M340. Pretty sure any M340 owner can afford an M3.

[JustinHEMI]

I agree with Doug so much. I came from the Challenger world to the BMW world and "up badging" was a disease in the Challenger world. A lot of "scat pack" guys were badging their cards "SRT" and what not, not to mention the fake hellcats running around out there.

I don't know who they thought they were fooling.

[JustinHEMI]

By the way, does putting 437M wheels on my M2C count as "down badging?"

[R N M]

BMW and MB have stuck more “fake” M and AMG badges than the poseurs ever have.

Completely diluted the brand value for quick short term profit.

The sad part is - young generation will actually think M340i was an M car.....

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

By the way, does putting 437M wheels on my M2C count as "down badging?"

If by de-badging you mean putting the optimal F Chassis M wheels on, then yes my friend... de-badge away!

[R N M]

Originally Posted by TiMSport

Who said anything about "M Sport" package? As an example, the M340i and M440i are not packages, they are legit cars with full on performance upgrades. Having the B58 engine with 6-cylinders and 382hp is not a "package". The regular 330i has a 4 banger and on a different level altogether.

As I stated at the beginning, these are categorized under the M Performance class. Not to be confused with M sport class, period. Something tells me you have no understanding of the aforementioned models I reference.

I’m sorry your M340i is NOT an M car lol.
I have 2020 X3 M40i with the B58 382hp engine and F80 M3. There are many things that make M3 special and a true M car that my M40i lacks.

The ONLY reason they put the M badge on 340i or X3 or 550i is for pure Marketing BS. Previous generations never had them. An M badge should only be put on an M car same with AMG.

[TiMSport]

Originally Posted by R N M

BMW and MB have stuck more “fake” M and AMG badges than the poseurs ever have.

Completely diluted the brand value for quick short term profit.

The sad part is - young generation will actually think M340i was an M car.....

True. However, you give too much credit to the "young generation" and not distinguishing between an M340i and an "M" car. Depending on which generation of young people you are referring to, today's youngsters don't give 2 shits about cars anyway. As such, they don't care either way.

On the other hand, if you were an exec at BMW or MB and you found that by adding badges all over the place on non-M cars and/or non AMG cars, would make for more sales of profitable models, you'd probably do the same thing. Not that I agree with it, but it's all business. Unfortunately the dilution happens as you suggested.

I personally like to think that true car enthusiasts that know the difference are the only ones that care anyway. I mean are you really trying to impress non enthusiasts? I doubt it.

[TiMSport]

Originally Posted by R N M

I’m sorry your M340i is NOT an M car lol.
I have 2020 X3 M40i with the B58 382hp engine and F80 M3. There are many things that make M3 special and a true M car that my M40i lacks.

The ONLY reason they put the M badge on 340i or X3 or 550i is for pure Marketing BS. Previous generations never had them. An M badge should only be put on an M car same with AMG.

Once again, I never said it was. Now to reiterate an earlier argument, there is in fact a difference between an M Performance variant and a standard model with some primarily aesthetic add-ons making it a sportier looking vehicle or an M sport if you will. I tend to think there's a big difference between those.

The fact that today's M340i has about 50 more hp than an e46 M3 is rather mind boggling. The 0-60 time is much quicker as well. Will it handle better or have that infamous steering feedback of the e46 platform, probably not. I guess that is what has hampered BMW these past few generations, at least with the 3 series.

For me, I decided to buy an M340i xDrive because I thought it struck a nice balance between sportiness and luxury. Moreover, it works as a DD much better than an M3/M4 IMO. It's not a money issue either.

[Vivek.]

Originally Posted by TiMSport

Once again, I never said it was. Now to reiterate an earlier argument, there is in fact a difference between an M Performance variant and a standard model with some primarily aesthetic add-ons making it a sportier looking vehicle or an M sport if you will. I tend to think there's a big difference between those.

The fact that today's M340i has about 50 more hp than an e46 M3 is rather mind boggling. The 0-60 time is much quicker as well. Will it handle better or have that infamous steering feedback of the e46 platform, probably not. I guess that is what has hampered BMW these past few generations, at least with the 3 series.

Is it that mind boggling that a turbo i6 car has 50hp more than an NA i6 from 20 years ago?

Originally Posted by TiMSport

For me, I decided to buy an M340i xDrive because I thought it struck a nice balance between sportiness and luxury. Moreover, it works as a DD much better than an M3/M4 IMO. It's not a money issue either.

Talked to a guy at work who bought an M340 for this exact reason. Price difference was no object, but he didn't like the M3 suspension.

[Clark_Kent]

Originally Posted by TiMSport

Once again, I never said it was. Now to reiterate an earlier argument, there is in fact a difference between an M Performance variant and a standard model with some primarily aesthetic add-ons making it a sportier looking vehicle or an M sport if you will. I tend to think there's a big difference between those.

The fact that today's M340i has about 50 more hp than an e46 M3 is rather mind boggling. The 0-60 time is much quicker as well. Will it handle better or have that infamous steering feedback of the e46 platform, probably not. I guess that is what has hampered BMW these past few generations, at least with the 3 series.

For me, I decided to buy an M340i xDrive because I thought it struck a nice balance between sportiness and luxury. Moreover, it works as a DD much better than an M3/M4 IMO. It's not a money issue either.

What's mind boggling to me is the price point on the M Sport vehicles. I don't see the value, at all. Truth is: BMW has gone overboard with market segmentation and the product line up has suffered as a result.

[TiMSport]

Originally Posted by Vivek.

Is it that mind boggling that a turbo i6 car has 50hp more than an NA i6 from 20 years ago?


Talked to a guy at work who bought an M340 for this exact reason. Price difference was no object, but he didn't like the M3 suspension.

I guess it's not, perhaps an exaggeration. But still, a non M car versus the real deal, but from a performance perspective I think it's still impressive.

Yeah, I didn't really need an ultra stiff suspension setup, have had plenty of those.

[TiMSport]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

What's mind boggling to me is the price point on the M Sport vehicles. I don't see the value, at all. Truth is: BMW has gone overboard with market segmentation and the product line up has suffered as a result.

True. It's a tough pill to swallow considering mine stickers at a tad bit short of $70k. However, as I noted in a separate response, it's a car that rides a pretty decent line between performance and luxury. Audi does a pretty good job of that but I was ready for a change, not to mention unless you have an RS variant, they're a bit too sterile.

[Vivek.]

Originally Posted by TiMSport

I guess it's not, perhaps an exaggeration. But still, a non M car versus the real deal, but from a performance perspective I think it's still impressive.

Yeah, I didn't really need an ultra stiff suspension setup, have had plenty of those.

Impressive but nothing new; they did the same thing in 2007 with the 335i. It wasn't an M-anything yet was almost significantly faster (outside of a racetrack) than the 2006 M3. My point is that M Performance models are only new in terms of the name, not in terms of the comparative performance.

Originally Posted by Edmunds

This 2007 BMW 335i test car blazed from zero to 60 in 4.8 seconds. BMW says the new coupe mit twin-turbo engine and Steptronic six-speed autobox should make that trip in 5.5 seconds. Seven-tenths of a second quicker? That's 13-percent better than BMW's claim. Folks give aftermarket tuners wads of cash for that kind of performance bump, especially when a car starts out in the mid 5s to begin with.

Our 335i similarly scalded the quarter-mile in 13.3 seconds at 105.9 mph. For comparison, our 2005 M3 Competition Package used up 5.5 seconds getting to 60 and finished the quarter-mile in 13.7 seconds at 105.4 mph

https://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3-series...oad-test2.html

[TiMSport]

Originally Posted by Vivek.

Impressive but nothing new; they did the same thing in 2007 with the 335i. It wasn't an M-anything yet was almost significantly faster (outside of a racetrack) than the 2006 M3. My point is that M Performance models are only new in terms of the name, not in terms of the comparative performance.


https://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3-series...oad-test2.html

Good points. I do like the fact the car has some cool new technologies that I didn't have in the past though.

[aliiin]

Bump

[ASAP]

Does it make it any more awkward if the real M car has less M badges than the M performance model lol?

BMW took it to the next level by placing the M340i type cars in the M section of the website... that was never the case before... then they added the limited slip diffs and at this point no one knows what's what.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Does it make it any more awkward if the real M car has less M badges than the M performance model lol?

BMW took it to the next level by placing the M340i type cars in the M section of the website... that was never the case before... then they added the limited slip diffs and at this point no one knows what's what.

AMG has been doing this for many years. If C/GLC 43 are AMG, any 6+ cylinder BMW can be an M.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

AMG has been doing this for many years. If C/GLC 43 are AMG, any 6+ cylinder BMW can be an M.

Funny you mention it BMW was actually ahead of the game when it came to the mid-tier performance badging. The first M-Performance vehicle (M235i) was unveiled in late 2013, MB soon followed with the C43 in early 2016. The 3er was just late to adopt the new nomenclature.