i7 M70 - Heavy Steering?

[evanevery]

Just took delivery of my i7 M70 at the PDC. Drove the 800+ miles back home (stopping to let the winter storm pass by)...

Is it just me, or does anyone think the steering feel in this car is WAY TOO HEAVY?

I've owned a bunch of BMW's (and still do) and the steering feel on the i7 is super heavy. Its even a bit of a mental and physical task to steer the car at highway speeds (75mph). Hard to finness with a couple of fingers or even one hand. It get heavier as the car goes faster. It even feels "notchy" as I gently rotate the wheel back to center. Almost like the wheel doesn't want to turn. Sticky and notchy is the best I can describe. Almost like something in the steering geometry is overtight. Its not dangerous - it just takes a bit more effort to get the car on the line I want. Actually a little fatiguing for long drives. It seems to get stiffer as the car goes faster. I would understand this but not to the excess I think I'm experiencing. There is absolutely no feedback in the wheel either. Again, fine at lower speeds but really noticeable at 70+ so I'm not thinking its a physical thing. More like something related to speed sensitive steering. I'm really hoping this is not "just the way it is"...

Yes, I have all the lane guidance stuff turned off. ...and I've tried putting here in sport mode and toggling the steering setting up and down (doesn't seem to really do anything).

Curiously, when the cruise is initially activated (just the speed/distance mode), the steering feel is fine at speed. But disengaging the cruise altogether makes it feel heavy again.

I'm taking the car in tomorrow to my tech to have it looked at. I going to have him road test it while I'm in the car so I can have him try a few things that seem to exacerbate the feeling.

Has anyone noticed anything like this? Usually BMW's are notoriously light in steering...

(Oh, and my clock seems to auto set me to the "Maldives" for some reason...)

[av0789]

I am taking delivery of my M70 tomorrow! I will take note of this when I get on the highway on my way home.

Besides the steering, how is the car overall? Is the handling significantly different than the i7 xdrive60?

[rollingtaser]

"Sticky and notchy" and "disengaging the cruise altogether makes it feel heavy again"

nope, not an expert, but i can definitely say that this is not the case for mine!

from what you describe it's the opposite from how it sould be. disengaged active servos = easy turning...

[AlteBMW]

When the cars are shipped from Germany there are restraints placed in many components to protect it when in transit. I am wondering if the dealer missed something in the prep. Dealers have been known to do incompetent things.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by AlteBMW

When the cars are shipped from Germany there are restraints placed in many components to protect it when in transit. I am wondering if the dealer missed something in the prep. Dealers have been known to do incompetent things.

Yeah, but this was a PDC delivery. Those guys are way above "dealer" levels...

We had to skip the test drive today as we got a bunch of snow again last night and there is no way I wanted to do 70+ mph highway testing this morning on Summer Performance Tires. More snow again tonight and PPF/Tinting all next week so we rescheduled the service visit for the 22nd... Took the opportunity to put my Winter Wheels/Tires on though...

The fact that it feels heavy with speed leads me to think its not any type of restraints or binding of the suspension. I would feel that at slower speeds even more I think. This is either "by design" or some sort of software induced condition. The fact that it seemingly goes away when Cruise is initially enabled (speed/distance only) also points to software/firmware. I'm hoping its not "by design" (for stability) as that would be very unfortunate I think...

You simply can not easily steer the car with "two fingers" at speeds above 70. (That would be a viable test for anyone who wants to compare). It requires conscious adjustment/attention as its so heavy/sticky (although also precise). Simply can't cruise "effortlessly" down the highway at speed. As such, I used the "Drive Assist Plus" (hands free) mode most of the 800 miles. (I've had a Tesla and this is capability is much more useful than anything I've seen before - just keep your "eyes up"...)

I've had a lot of big/heavy BMW's (X6M, M6, iXM60) and the difference here is quite noticeable...

[av0789]

Just took delivery, I definitely do not feel this heavy steering. It is actually quite well balanced. Must be definitely something not right with your M70.

[rollingtaser]

Originally Posted by evanevery

I've had a Tesla and this is capability is much more useful than anything I've seen before - just keep your "eyes up"...)

very interesting! could you please elaborate? could you describe what is better/worse on the i7? i'd love to get a first hand comment on this...

thanks!

[evanevery]

In the Tesla, the hands-free driving was pretty much just a "party trick". You had to keep grabbing the wheel every few minutes. The Tesla also did not seem to find/maintain the center of the lane very smoothly. Granted, my Tesla was from a much earlier generation (2016) and I expect things have improved considerably in the newer models.

Given the stiff steering in my i7, I chose to drive using the hands free 'Drive Assist Plus" mode most of my 800 mile trip (while in good weather on the Interstate).

"Drive Assist Plus" works very well in that you shouldn't have to grab the wheel at all unless the pavement becomes unmarked or you enter a work zone. I could actually sit with my hands in my lap for most of the trip. As a "driver" this wouldn't be my first choice, but it was better than having to nuance the tight steering over-and-over for 800 miles. "Drive Assist Plus" actually works very well. As long as you can find a comfortable place to put your hands (other than on the wheel), its pretty neat.

The car obviously is watching your eyeballs though so if you look down or up or to the side for more than a second or so, it will post an "inattentive" warning on the instrument cluster. I did drive with sunglasses on my first day so not sure how its doing its monitoring in that case. Interestingly, it did "yell" at me pretty much anytime I lifted a drink out of the cupholders to take a sip.

Its a neat feature, but I'ld trade it anytime for a less-stiff/sticky steering feel. Hopefully, its just something amiss with my car and not a design "feature"...

Anyone who has an M car knows you can put the steering into "Sport Mode". Well, the stiffness I'm feeling is like a significant couple of steps up in "Sport Steering" mode. Its not unsafe, but it is pretty fatiguing to keep chasing the alignment on long trips...

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by av0789

Just took delivery, I definitely do not feel this heavy steering. It is actually quite well balanced. Must be definitely something not right with your M70.

Not to put too fine a point on this...

Can you easily make subtle adjustments when driving a curving interstate at 75 mph with just one hand resting in your lap and the wheel between your thumb and forefinger? (DISCLAIMER: Not suggesting this is an "ideal" way to drive, but its the best test I can think of...)

[rollingtaser]

thanks for the comment! much appreciated

as for the driving:

at 75mph i had the impression that for for changing lanes it was stiffer als when driving 20mph. keeping it in the lane was nearly effortless. it's like increasing resistance for like 10° or so. as there was a lot of traffic i couldn't change lanes like drunk to experiment...

what i can say is that any turn is smooth, regardless of strength needed.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by rollingtaser

thanks for the comment! much appreciated

as for the driving:

at 75mph i had the impression that for for changing lanes it was stiffer als when driving 20mph. keeping it in the lane was nearly effortless. it's like increasing resistance for like 10° or so. as there was a lot of traffic i couldn't change lanes like drunk to experiment...

what i can say is that any turn is smooth, regardless of strength needed.

Yeah, the turning is smooth and precise. ...and keeping the vehicle in the lane is no effort as long as the road is straight. That's not the issue. The wheel kinda doesn't want to move - so "straight is good"...

The issue I'm having is how much (relative) effort it takes to make minor adjustments to the path of the vehicle. Its nothing superhuman or dangerous, just way more than it should (I think).

Our iX M60 is nothing like this...

If you've ever driven a old car with a loose steering box, you know how much attention you need to keep the car bouncing between the lines. This is pretty much the opposite. It just takes more attention to make minor adjustments in steering due to how stiff it is. I can't just "mindlessly" drive down the road with one hand. (...and maybe that's a good thing? ;-)

[evanevery]

Rode with my Tech yesterday (Known him for years - VERY good!). He also said it didn't feel right...

Ran a full software reload and they kept the car overnight. Nothing changed.

Today they took out an i7 x60 (as they don't have an M70) to compare. Confirmed still not right...

BMW says they have no reports of this and has requested the steering gear be replaced. (Yes folks, the whole rack!)

Supposed to get the car back on Thursday (2 Days). At least I know she's in good hands...

[rollingtaser]

Originally Posted by evanevery

Rode with my Tech yesterday (Known him for years - VERY good!). He also said it didn't feel right...

Ran a full software reload and they kept the car overnight. Nothing changed.

Today they took out an i7 x60 (as they don't have an M70) to compare. Confirmed still not right...

BMW says they have no reports of this and has requested the steering gear be replaced. (Yes folks, the whole rack!)

Supposed to get the car back on Thursday (2 Days). At least I know she's in good hands...

thanks for the update.

ahhh, this hurts me down to the bones... i really hope this is solved for good after being in the shop!

[MineralWhiteG12]

Sounds like you're on the road to recovery; but, I see the M70 has "Integral Active Steering with rear-axle steering", "Servotronic power-steering assist" and "Electric Power Steering" . That's an awful lot of electronic steering assist tech. I would expect it's not going to feel anything like an old-school mechanical steering system with hydraulic power assist.

Similar thing happened when Mercedes tried Sensotronic braking system, fully electronic brake actuation, in the early 2000's. Never could get the brake feel right and quickly abandoned it after trying it in only one model, the E-Class of the day.

[AlteBMW]

Originally Posted by MineralWhiteG12

Sounds like you're on the road to recovery; but, I see the M70 has "Integral Active Steering with rear-axle steering", "Servotronic power-steering assist" and "Electric Power Steering" . That's an awful lot of electronic steering assist tech. I would expect it's not going to feel anything like an old-school mechanical steering system with hydraulic power assist.

Similar thing happened when Mercedes tried Sensotronic braking system, fully electronic brake actuation, in the early 2000's. Never could get the brake feel right and quickly abandoned it after trying it in only one model, the E-Class of the day.

The 7 is a big heavy car and will never feel like a 3 series, but it steers very precisely and without great effort and holds the line extrmely well without need for constant correction. The difference to me would not be effort but "feel" and the 7 is more isolated than a 3 - but imho not much different from a modern 5 series. I've had several with IAS, and it has little effect on steering effort. Evanevery's car seems to have a problem. The techs at his dealer agreed. So to me it is a QC issue and not a design issue.

[evanevery]

My BMW Tech drove the car. He said, "Yeah, somethings not right...". Not only was it too stiff, but he also felt the "notch" in the steering alignment. It almost feels like there is a detent at centerline. They also did a driving comparison with an i7 x60 they had in stock.

I've driven plenty of heavy cars/EV's (inc BMW). This is not that. So much so that BMW is paying to replace the entire steering gear assembly.

Still waiting on a couple of parts. I was told a few minutes ago that the car should be done on Monday...

[CaboM4]

Originally Posted by evanevery

My BMW Tech drove the car. He said, "Yeah, somethings not right...". Not only was it too stiff, but he also felt the "notch" in the steering alignment. It almost feels like there is a detent at centerline. They also did a driving comparison with an i7 x60 they had in stock.

I've driven plenty of heavy cars/EV's (inc BMW). This is not that. So much so that BMW is paying to replace the entire steering gear assembly.

Still waiting on a couple of parts. I was told a few minutes ago that the car should be done on Monday...

Sorry to hear, interested to hear your thoughts on the M70 once the steering is corrected and you get some seat time in

[evanevery]

Thanks! However I've already had over 800 miles of seat time in the car on the way back from the PDC delivery. One of the last euro produced cars to get a USA PDC delivery I think...

[evanevery]

Just got the car back from service. They replaced the whole steering rack. The "notchiness" is gone and the feel is much smoother now!

[rollingtaser]

Originally Posted by evanevery

Just got the car back from service. They replaced the whole steering rack. The "notchiness" is gone and the feel is much smoother now!

good to hear!!

[AlteBMW]

Originally Posted by evanevery

Just got the car back from service. They replaced the whole steering rack. The "notchiness" is gone and the feel is much smoother now!

Very happy for you. Bummer to have a defective brand new car.

Been there done that BTW. On a 1972 MGB I bought the SU carburetor (remember those?) float failed on day 1. I think QC has improved overall since then, but a steering rack problem seems like it should have been caught before it left the factory -- or at least before it was in transport.

[CaboM4]

Originally Posted by evanevery

Just got the car back from service. They replaced the whole steering rack. The "notchiness" is gone and the feel is much smoother now!

great news!