anybody miss manual, move back but then miss DCT?

[baege]

so I have posted as of late I find myself missing manual
but I will admit I am a little torn on this
there are parts of me (aka the old man parts which grow stronger every year) that like the ease of DCT especially in traffic
and the rapid downshifts and accompanying sounds are fun

when I think back to my last manual, ( A GTS 4.0 with a relatively heavy clutch and shifting that required some effort) I do remember it feeling a bit of a chore at times

I dont want to end up moving back to manual and then regret it (especially if I make a costly move like to a GT3)

just curious if anyone on here has moved back to manual from a DCT and then actually ended up missing the DCT and regretted the move back to manual?

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Not exactly, but I own a manual BRZ, a ZF6 automatic 335i and my wife has a DCT C8 Corvette. I also drove a rented Boxster GTS4.0 with a PDK for a few hours in the canyons of LA (as an example of probably the best automatic transmission).

I completely agree that a manual feels like a chore sometimes and letting the automatic transmission take care of it is nice. Just the other day I hit some traffic on an errand and was glad to be in the 335i over the BRZ.

However, if I really had to sell some cars, the BRZ would be the very last I would part with. But that's just a matter of personal preference.

I've been following your threads (great insights and suggestions from forum members there), and I still think the best option is 2 cars - one automatic GT and one manual hardcore sports car.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by baege

so I have posted as of late I find myself missing manual but I will admit I am a little torn on this
there are parts of me (aka the old man parts which grow stronger every year) that like the ease of DCT especially in traffic
and the rapid downshifts and accompanying sounds are fun

I miss MT in theory, but not in practice.
I have had MT cars, continuously, for 25+ years, until F80 DCT.
DCT is far superior on track, on the street, and in between.
I do still enjoy the idea of shifting my own gears, and test drive MT cars every chance I get.
I loved MT in a Miata and Civic Type R.
I've been disappointed with BMW 6MTs - BMW had stopped investing into manuals decades ago, and legacy 6-speed is sloppy, outdated, and performance degrading.

Originally Posted by baege

just curious if anyone on here has moved back to manual from a DCT and then actually ended up missing the DCT and regretted the move back to manual?

Test drive a perspective MT car - that is the only way to tell if you will enjoy it.
Not all MTs are engineered equally well, and in my experience, BMW's leave a lot to be desired.
I would not downgrade from DCT to BMW 6MT, but would strongly consider doing so in a Type R, or a Porsche. But only after test-driving to confirm how it feels in my hands.


HTH,
a

[thebmw]

I own multiple manual and DCT Fxx M6. They're completely different experiences. However, when I am in the DCT, I look at the manual trans and want to drive it. When I'm in the manuals, I never look at the DCT transmission and say I wish I was driving it.

I bought the DCT not because of the transmission, but because of the spec of the car. I had to have that rare color combination and it was the highest MSRP for the M6 at around 170k.

[tracksidemanner]

I believe you'll always have times where you want the other. Best thing is to have one of each. I'm a manual guy at heart but cant deny how fun and effortless the dual-clutches or even the ZF8 can be at times.

[baege]

Originally Posted by tracksidemanner

I believe you'll always have times where you want the other. Best thing is to have one of each. I'm a manual guy at heart but cant deny how fun and effortless the dual-clutches or even the ZF8 can be at times.

definitely both is the right answer but not in the cards for me

so far no one has posted that they actually missed DCT after moving back to manual....you do hear the opposite quite a bit (missing manual after moving to DCT)

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by afadeev

I've been disappointed with BMW 6MTs - BMW had stopped investing into manuals decades ago, and legacy 6-speed is sloppy, outdated, and performance degrading.

Not all MTs are engineered equally well, and in my experience, BMW's leave a lot to be desired.

I would not downgrade from DCT to BMW 6MT, but would strongly consider doing so in a Type R, or a Porsche. But only after test-driving to confirm how it feels in my hands.

While it is true that BMWs have stopped developing new manual transmissions a couple decades ago, it still provides visceral experience that cannot be replicated by any auto / dct.

Miatas are ridiculously uncomfortable and only good for one thing. Civics are entry level cars and most of us are way past that stage of our lives. Porsches have become so ridiculously overpriced and offer no value to 99% of buyers (how many people are going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars just to get a manual transmission in a 911). Porsche still use Volkswagen parts, which I simply will not support.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by baege

definitely both is the right answer but not in the cards for me

so far no one has posted that they actually missed DCT after moving back to manual....you do hear the opposite quite a bit (missing manual after moving to DCT)

Since you have been pondering and ruminating about a manual for months, you have to get a manual to get it out of your system. There will be no amount of justification for a non-manual that will overcome your itch. They will be no validation by some random person on the internet that will quell your desire. There's nothing wrong with manuals as daily drivers.

You're not trying to buy the fastest car. Who cares if 0-60 is one second slower in the manual? Do you really want the woman who finishes you one second faster or who gives you the best experience?

You know you want it so just do it before your bones don't allow you to press the clutch pedal!

[Socal_R8]

I remember I stupidly sold my old slow high mile manual NSX for a shiny Porsche 981 Cayman S with PDK....

I was bored within a month.

I then sold it for a 718 6MT which I loved

then I sold that for one of my ultimate dream cars, a gated R8 and I plan on keeping it forever.

I have a Model 3 Performance as my daily which is perfect for the 20 mile work commute


I will always make sure to have a manual sports car from now on, but I will also most likely always have an auto for a daily....

If you can swing both, that is the way to go.....

[whyzee125]

I’ve never owned a DCT but have owned ZF8 cars. It always feels like a joy being back in a manual. All the manual cars I’ve owned have been really easy - never owned anything with a heavy clutch or an aftermarket clutch that can be tiresome. But my old man parts are starting to become noticeable too so give me a year or two and this might change 😂

[RM7]

No

[Alfisti]

I've never understood the whole genuflection at the manual altar thing. I find the modern DCT/PDK thingies great as I can let it do it's thing or select a gear. Even my new to me FPACE, I have the baby engine and even in Sport mode she does not kick down early enough on long hills, a quick flick and book, I am in the right gear no worries.

Now, being the hypocrite I am, I am keeping an eye out for the exact same spec a smy 997 but with a stick. Not because I miss the stick but because I don't trust the PDK and also, yeah it just feels odd to have dedicated analog car without a stick.

HOWEVER, in your use case, as a singular car and you like your modern trinkets and doodads and digital this and that, just get the PDK/DCT and be done with it. How often are you flogging the car?

[Davil]

The solution is two cars. I think it was you in a recent thread in a similar vein?

I just got a twin plate clutch and lightened GT4 flywheel upgrade in one of my cars. It is now the only one I want to drive. The best manual shift I’ve ever used.

Drive being the operative word though.

Commuting is not driving.

[Ambrozie]

Originally Posted by thebmw

I own multiple manual and DCT Fxx M6. They're completely different experiences. However, when I am in the DCT, I look at the manual trans and want to drive it. When I'm in the manuals, I never look at the DCT transmission and say I wish I was driving it.

I bought the DCT not because of the transmission, but because of the spec of the car. I had to have that rare color combination and it was the highest MSRP for the M6 at around 170k.

I once came achingly close to picking up an F06 in Ruby Black optioned with a 6-speed. Unfortunately not the right type of car at that time in my life.

[Ambrozie]

Originally Posted by Davil

The solution is two cars. I think it was you in a recent thread in a similar vein?

I just got a twin plate clutch and lightened GT4 flywheel upgrade in one of my cars. It is now the only one I want to drive. The best manual shift I’ve ever used.

Drive being the operative word though.

Commuting is not driving.

This is ultimately the solution.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by Davil

The solution is two cars. I think it was you in a recent thread in a similar vein?

I just got a twin plate clutch and lightened GT4 flywheel upgrade in one of my cars. It is now the only one I want to drive. The best manual shift I’ve ever used.

Drive being the operative word though.

Commuting is not driving.

Since he can only buy one car, the answer is clear. He needs to get the manual out of his system. Manuals are fine and have been daily drivers since the dawn of the automobile (and those manuals were a PITA)!

Not all commuting is bumper to bumper. There are plenty of opportunities to "drive" while commuting. He just has to make sure he buys the right car that is enjoyable drive and looks good.

[baege]

Originally Posted by Socal_R8

I remember I stupidly sold my old slow high mile manual NSX for a shiny Porsche 981 Cayman S with PDK....

I was bored within a month.

I then sold it for a 718 6MT which I loved

then I sold that for one of my ultimate dream cars, a gated R8 and I plan on keeping it forever.

I have a Model 3 Performance as my daily which is perfect for the 20 mile work commute


I will always make sure to have a manual sports car from now on, but I will also most likely always have an auto for a daily....

If you can swing both, that is the way to go.....

if I end up with a daily it will be a dct or zf8 of some sort but I am actually debating whether for my weekend car, I will enjoy manual or DCT more...

The R8 is the first DCT I have had and it definitely has its charms.

It would be interesting to hear from anyone has switched from DCT to manual and then actually missed DCT...so far no takers...

[baege]

Originally Posted by whyzee125

I’ve never owned a DCT but have owned ZF8 cars. It always feels like a joy being back in a manual. All the manual cars I’ve owned have been really easy - never owned anything with a heavy clutch or an aftermarket clutch that can be tiresome. But my old man parts are starting to become noticeable too so give me a year or two and this might change 😂

I think I am at that point that I prefer easy manuals, easy shift and action and light clutch...looking back I think I actually preferred the manual in my M2C over the manual in my GTS 4.0!

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I find the modern DCT/PDK thingies great as I can let it do it's thing or select a gear.

DCTs still suck when they mis-predict your intent, which happens fairly often to me (and I can easily get this to happen on demand during a test drive (a 335is I drove before getting my 335i was particularly bad)). PDK handles this best, but it's still noticeable to me. For this reason I have a preference for a (good) traditional torque converted automatic - they're a bit slower in all cases, but they are at least more consistent in their operation.

I wish I had the kind of money to try a Koenigsegg LST - it really does sound like the perfect transmission. If their simulated manual operation is done well (and I imagine it is) it could feel superior to a real manual transmission (since it eliminates drivetrain lash impact on shifter operation (not to say of any slop in the shifting linkage)).

Personally, I just can't get engaged by pressing paddle shifters or moving a lever up/down (I never drove a racing sequential, so can't comment on that, but I feel I won't like it either). The fun of a manual transmission to me is the mechanical connection with the clutch/throttle pedals and the H-shifter lever. Performing a shift is an enjoyable physical experience in itself. The full control of the car is a nice side-bonus.

But, well, you know, that's just like uh, my opinion, man.

[ShocknAwe]

No.

Example. I don't miss my old PDK 911.1 GTS at all. It was an amazing performer but gave only a poor simulation of control, made me miss my manuals badly, and didn't have the smoothness of a good auto. It also felt slower and less rewarding, though this is confounded by how well/over engineered the 911.1 GTS was.

I'll leave the flappy paddles to the F1 teams where they belong and drive a comfort oriented vehicle if I don't want the driver engagement of driving my performance cars.

Save The Manuals

[Brandoch]

I have an E93 M3 DCT, and I love it. I only drive in sequential mode, it never misses a beat. I drove manuals for about 10 years but I'm kinda over it. My mom has a manual Miata that I take out once a year to satisfy the itch.

[D_SheerDrivingPleasure]

I track both a manual F80 and a manual G80, and that’s exactly why I love them. Driving a manual on track is deeply rewarding because it demands more of you: steering input, threshold braking, and perfectly timed shifts. You’re constantly managing the car, not just operating it (even if you rely on auto blip to rev match).

Both cars run the Auto Solutions short shifter, and it completely transforms the experience. The throws are tighter, the gates are more defined, and every shift feels deliberate and mechanical instead of liek stirring a bowl of pudding.

On top of that, MHD’s “No Lift Shift” feature is an absolute blast. Keeping your foot planted while snapping off an upshift adds both drama and performance. Once it’s available for the G8x in April, it’ll make the S58 car even more engaging.

So yes, manuals are awesome. They’re slower and more work, but that’s the point.

And let’s be honest, being able to clutch in and trigger some playful exhaust theatrics while creeping around a parking lot never gets old.