Paint Correction on BSM

[hh.m2c]

Hey everyone,

Quick question about paint correction before doing PPF and ceramic coating. My car is a 2020 in Black Sapphire Metallic with about 50k km. From what I can tell the paint is in pretty decent shape, nothing too rough, just the usual light swirls you’d expect.

I know there are a lot of factors like overall paint condition, how the car was maintained, lighting, etc., but generally speaking is a 1-stage paint correction usually enough for BSM before applying PPF and ceramic? Or do people usually end up needing a 2-stage to get it where it should be?

Just trying to get a rough idea before I move forward. Thanks!

[TimmyTurbos]

I'd do 2 stage to be safe. Once the PPF is on whatever is under it stays there. Unless you remove and reapply of course. Buy once, cry once.

[M3SQRD]

The paint correction stages are not color specific; instead, it’s the extend and depth of the paint defects and swirl marks.

I had taken excellent care of my Moonshine Metallic f82 but it still ended up needing a two-stage correction to eliminate all visible paint defects. It ended up looking flawless. After waiting one extra day before picking it up to ensure the ceramic coating had fully cured…we got stuck in a torrential rainstorm on our way home Cleanup was easy but I didn’t even get one day to enjoy it at home and take pictures with our two e92 M3s!

[hh.m2c]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

The paint correction stages are not color specific; instead, it’s the extend and depth of the paint defects and swirl marks.

I had taken excellent care of my Moonshine Metallic f82 but it still ended up needing a two-stage correction to eliminate all visible paint defects. It ended up looking flawless. After waiting one extra day before picking it up to ensure the ceramic coating had fully cured…we got stuck in a torrential rainstorm on our way home Cleanup was easy but I didn’t even get one day to enjoy it at home and take pictures with our two e92 M3s!

Yeah I understand it’s not color specific, I just know defects are easier to see on black cars. I know PPF will hide a lot of the light defects/swirls, no point taking clear coat off if I don’t need to. The plan is to correct the entire car, lay PPF over the front and ceramic coat the PPF and the rest of the car. But you’re right, might as well get the paint as perfect as possible before laying PPF or coating the car. I know if I see any defects afterward, it’ll drive me insane.

[tcphoto]

My E92 is BSM and I got into detailing it over the pandemic. After trying a two stage detail, I figured out that the clearcoat on three panels was failing. I had those panels painted and then wanted to ceramic coat the car. I started with clay bar then used a rather aggressive compound on the old panels, polish the entire vehicle the ceramic coat. It took about eight hours but it turned out well, no more swirl marks and it’s held up well for the past two years.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by hh.m2c

Yeah I understand it’s not color specific, I just know defects are easier to see on black cars. I know PPF will hide a lot of the light defects/swirls, no point taking clear coat off if I don’t need to. The plan is to correct the entire car, lay PPF over the front and ceramic coat the PPF and the rest of the car. But you’re right, might as well get the paint as perfect as possible before laying PPF or coating the car. I know if I see any defects afterward, it’ll drive me insane.

What I was trying to say is: start with the single-stage correction and, if it doesn’t cleanup all of the paint imperfections, have the second-stage correction done, too. Don’t commit to one or the other until the work is done. We thought a single-stage correction would capture everything but it did not so onto the second-stage correction…

[Pheonix]

Are you wrapping the whole car?
Swirls and light scratches wont shown through PPF.
Here was my BMS Z4M.
Took me over 40 hours to get where I wanted it to be after many years of neglect🤩

[TimmyTurbos]

PPF won't hide scratches, actually it shows them pretty well. It's clear guys. If you see the scratch/swirl without PPF, you'll also see it with PPF.

Z4M looks great! Nice job!

[TimmyTurbos]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

What I was trying to say is: start with the single-stage correction and, if it doesn’t cleanup all of the paint imperfections, have the second-stage correction done, too. Don’t commit to one or the other until the work is done. We thought a single-stage correction would capture everything but it did not so onto the second-stage correction…

Yeah this is the best approach here. Don't pay up front for something you may not need.

[hh.m2c]

Originally Posted by Pheonix

Are you wrapping the whole car?
Swirls and light scratches wont shown through PPF.
Here was my BMS Z4M.
Took me over 40 hours to get where I wanted it to be after many years of neglect🤩

Z4M looks great 😍

Just PPF on the front. Then ceramic coating the rest of the car as well as the PPF.

[hh.m2c]

Originally Posted by TimmyTurbos

Yeah this is the best approach here. Don't pay up front for something you may not need.

🫡🫡

Shop is charging $300 CAD/ stage of correction so not bad in the grand scheme of things. Will definitely decide after the first stage if the car needs some more love. Thanks

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by hh.m2c

Quick question about paint correction before doing PPF and ceramic coating. My car is a 2020 in Black Sapphire Metallic with about 50k km. From what I can tell the paint is in pretty decent shape, nothing too rough, just the usual light swirls you’d expect.
[...]is a 1-stage paint correction usually enough for BSM before applying PPF and ceramic? Or do people usually end up needing a 2-stage to get it where it should be?

Lets get terminology straight first:
1-stage == just polish the paint. Usually good enough to address moderate swirl marks, scratches, and oxidation. Deeper scratches will require more work.
2-stage == compound the paint (using heavy cutting compound to remove defects), then polish (to restore gloss and eliminate hazing after compounding).

What your car requires (independent of paint color) depends entirely on the damage to the paint. After 50K miles, I would expect to need 2-stage + touch-up paint chips to make it look 98% perfect.

Do you want to pay for 2-stage if you are PPF-ing anyway? Probably not.
Unless you are DIY-ing polishing, in which case, polish the car first (1-stage), see if that's good enough. If not, come back and compound+re-polish problem areas that need more attention, as appropriate!

PPF will hide a lot of defects, so making paint perfect before PPF is a waste of time and money, as it will get nicked later when you will be removing PPF (after it gets damaged, discolors, etc).

HTH,
a

[TboneS54]

No need for 2 stage if you're going to PPF

NO, you can not do 1 step, then decide the car actually needs a 2 step. That 1st step would be an AIO or a medium polish that would finish out well enough for LSP. So if the car needed real cut, it's too late - you're now going to be doing a 3 step, because you can't do a step of cutting (compound) and then be done, you have to follow up with a final polish.

How to know if the car needs a 2 step? Look for RIDS. Circular aka swirl marks and marring (scuffing) and water spots and such will come out with the 1 step. But real scratches won't. Real scratches will be straighter. But you don't need to take out scratches for PPF. In fact, IMO, I wouldn't even bother chasing scratches too much, and focus more on the final polish for all the gloss (on cars not getting PPF)

The best adice is always - do a test spot.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by hh.m2c

🫡🫡

Shop is charging $300 CAD/ stage of correction so not bad in the grand scheme of things. Will definitely decide after the first stage if the car needs some more love. Thanks

For $300 a stage I'd let them do it for sure, assuming you trust them, they have good reviews, etc. It's a bit of a PITA, and a pro is probably going to get better results anyway.

[hh.m2c]

Originally Posted by afadeev

Lets get terminology straight first:
1-stage == just polish the paint. Usually good enough to address moderate swirl marks, scratches, and oxidation. Deeper scratches will require more work.
2-stage == compound the paint (using heavy cutting compound to remove defects), then polish (to restore gloss and eliminate hazing after compounding).

What your car requires (independent of paint color) depends entirely on the damage to the paint. After 50K miles, I would expect to need 2-stage to make it look 98% perfect.

Do you want to pay for 2-stage if you are PPF-ing anyway? Probably not.
Unless you are DIY-ing polishing, in which case, polish the car first (1-stage), see if it's good enough. If not, come back and compound+re-polish problem areas that need more attention, as appropriet!

PPF will hide a lot of defects, so making paint perfect before PPF is a waste of time and money, as it will get nicked later when you will be removing PPF (after it gets damaged, discolors, etc).

HTH,
a

My thinking is that if some areas that aren’t getting PPF will need a 2-step correction, it probably makes more sense to just 2-step the whole car.

Since the car is black, defects will be much more visible, and ceramic coating can amplify them. PPF tends to hide minor defects because of the adhesive layer, but the exposed paint won’t.

I also understand that the normal process is to start with a finishing polish test spot first, and if that’s not enough, then move to a cut and polish.

I’ve polished my own cars before, but it’s a lot of work, so I’d rather have a trustworthy shop handle it lol.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by hh.m2c

My thinking is that if some areas that aren’t getting PPF will need a 2-step correction, it probably makes more sense to just 2-step the whole car.

True, but also depends on how you will be using the car down the road.
If it's a daily driver, it will absolutely pick up more scratches. Fast. It is inevitable.

If you are DIY-ing paint correction - then why not, have fun making it perfect with N-step (N>1).
If you are paying someone +$1K to make it perfect on a daily driver, and it will get scratched within a week, then it is entirely up to you whether it's worth it. For me, it would not.

Originally Posted by hh.m2c

I’ve polished my own cars before, but it’s a lot of work, so I’d rather have a trustworthy shop handle it lol.

True, but it is also a lot of fun.
And most importantly, the car does NOT stay perfect forever, especially if you daily drive it. So ability to quickly repolish newly scratched areas on your own is super handy.
If I were to make an appointment with a detailer every time one of my cars got paint swirls from someone or something bouncing off it in a parking lot, that process would become insanely expensive and frustrating. If you can DIY the problem area during the next car wash - then it's quick and easy. All of this assumes you arenjoy working on your car.

HTH,
a

P.S.: For me, it's the same as DIY-ing oil changes - it takes longer for me to drive to a dealer and back then to drain/refill oil in my garage. The DIY convenience and time saving factors are huge for both oil changes and detailing.

[hh.m2c]

Originally Posted by afadeev

True, but it is also a lot of fun. And most importantly, the car does NOT stay perfect forever, especially if you daily drive it. So ability to repolish newly scratched areas on your own is super handy. If I were to make an appointment with a detailer every time a car got paint swirls from someone or something bouncing off it in a parking lot, that process would become insanely expensive and cumbersome. If you can DIY the problem area during the next wash - then it's quick and easy.

HTH,
a

P.S.: For me, it's the same as DIY-ing oil changes - it takes longer for me to drive to a dealer and back then to drain/refill oil in my garage. The DIY convenience and time saving factors are huge for both oil changes and detailing.

You make a good point. I understand it’s usually more convenient to polish defects whenever you notice them if you’re doing it yourself.

But in my case I’m planning to cover the entire car with either PPF or a 5-year ceramic coating. Because of that, I wouldn’t really be able to correct the paint later without removing either the coating or the film. So it makes more sense to just have everything properly corrected beforehand.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by hh.m2c

But in my case I’m planning to cover the entire car with either PPF or a 5-year ceramic coating.

If you are ready to drop $8-12K on full PPF + ceramic, then why are you even asking about another +$1K for 2-stage paint correction!
Fire and forget!

Originally Posted by hh.m2c

Because of that, I wouldn’t really be able to correct the paint later without removing either the coating or the film. So it makes more sense to just have everything properly corrected beforehand.

If your PPF vendor said you need 2-stage correction to make it look good - pay them.
If they didn't and promised quality results, don't second guess them.
If something make you want to second guess them, find another vendor whose advice you fully trust!

a

[N1rve]

Swirl marks do not show through PPF. Only actual damage would like pitting or gouges in the paint. It’s actually a tactic I used for my gloss black window trim. They had swirl marks and I just clear PPF over it and it’s like new.

[tdott]

Originally Posted by N1rve

Swirl marks do not show through PPF. Only actual damage would like pitting or gouges in the paint. It’s actually a tactic I used for my gloss black window trim. They had swirl marks and I just clear PPF over it and it’s like new.

Tell this guy that:

He removed the full PPF on his GT3rs because there were swirl marks underneath and it bothered him.

not doing paint correction before ppf is dumb, unless the owner is blind.

[TimmyTurbos]

Maybe the bit of eggshell in the PPF is masking the swirls at certain angles, but you hit them in the right lighting they are 100% still there. PPF is clear, it's not magic guys. If you're spending the $ for full PPF don't half step the prep part.

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by tdott

Tell this guy that:

He removed the full PPF on his GT3rs because there were swirl marks underneath and it bothered him.

not doing paint correction before ppf is dumb, unless the owner is blind.

Maybe you sent the wrong video because all I see is this guy removing PPF because his car already had imperfections?

But this is what PPF will do to swirl marks...

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=htt...d58bd365a5b5af