Cybercab

[PTinVT]

Originally Posted by paul e

How’d you like to be in his spaceship lol

I'm starting to think we might not get to Mars by 2022.

[paul e]

Originally Posted by PTinVT

I'm starting to think we might not get to Mars by 2022.

I’m really lol…

Plus he’s given up Mars and is aiming at the moon now

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by PTinVT

I'm starting to think we might not get to Mars by 2022.

lol - I think I'm beginning to see a pattern with this guy...

Originally Posted by paul e

I’m really lol…

Plus he’s given up Mars and is aiming at the moon now

2027: The year we land in Hoboken!

Maybe.

[kudos]

Originally Posted by paul e

I’m really lol…

Plus he’s given up Mars and is aiming at the moon now

Just like his stupid cryptocurrency nonsense.

[Sedoy]

Jeez, a lot of Elon Derangement Syndrome here...
Whatever if EV/FSD/Robo are the future or not, competition is good as long as government subsidies are kept out of it.

[kudos]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

Jeez, a lot of Elon Derangement Syndrome here...
Whatever if EV/FSD/Robo are the future or not, competition is good as long as government subsidies are kept out of it.

The current argument for calling out snake oil is "derangement syndrome".

[erickonphoenix]

Our Waymo ride was fine and uneventful.

I do find these taxi services are all getting relatively expensive

[Sedoy]

I think calling Elon's products "snake oil" is a definition of "derangement syndrome"

Originally Posted by kudos

The current argument for calling out snake oil is "derangement syndrome".

[JABCAT]

People (especially those without higher levels of education or means) are infatuated with millionaires & billionaires. If you've ever watched an interview with Elon, you quickly realize he's really not that intelligent. He can never answer a question & just talks in circles throwing in a couple big words here & there. Then people say "omg, he's brilliant"

He is a genius at bilking governments and people of $$ though, so I'll give him that.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

I think calling Elon's products "snake oil" is a definition of "derangement syndrome"

Kinda like fully autonomous self-driving that was coming in 2017, and ever subsequent year thereafter? Or how about the $40,000 Cybertruck that has never, and will never appear? Or maybe the 1,000,000 Robotaxis that would be on the road by the end of 2020? Or the Roadster launching in 2020? Or humans on Mars by 2024? Oh, I know: The Boring Company doing anything of use at all?

So who has "derangement syndrome"? If Musk "promises" it there's about a 95% chance it's total bullshit. Yet the suckers keep breathlessly swallowing it, hook, line, and sinker.

[paul e]

He can really dance though, even with a chain saw

[Sedoy]

Just think of him as a salesman for his products. Pretty much everybody knows that he overpromises and that his timing is way off. But let’s not deny the facts: he revolutionized the EV industry, rocket industry, satellite communications, and while FSD is far from self-driving it still miles better compared to anything else on the market now.

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

Kinda like fully autonomous self-driving that was coming in 2017, and ever subsequent year thereafter? Or how about the $40,000 Cybertruck that has never, and will never appear? Or maybe the 1,000,000 Robotaxis that would be on the road by the end of 2020? Or the Roadster launching in 2020? Or humans on Mars by 2024? Oh, I know: The Boring Company doing anything of use at all?

So who has "derangement syndrome"? If Musk "promises" it there's about a 95% chance it's total bullshit. Yet the suckers keep breathlessly swallowing it, hook, line, and sinker.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

Just think of him as a salesman for his products. Pretty much everybody knows that he overpromises and that his timing is way off. But let’s not deny the facts: he revolutionized the EV industry, rocket industry, satellite communications, and while FSD is far from self-driving it still miles better compared to anything else on the market now.

I don't disagree with you, but the problem is that anything he says is reported as being a serious statement, and his legions of cultists act as if Moses brought it down from the mount on tablets. You may know it's nonsense, I may know it's nonsense, but there are plenty of people out there who don't seem to have caught on yet. Tesla's stock price is evidence of that.

[///M Power-Belgium]

.

[kudos]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

Just think of him as a salesman for his products. Pretty much everybody knows that he overpromises and that his timing is way off. But let’s not deny the facts: he revolutionized the EV industry, rocket industry, satellite communications, and while FSD is far from self-driving it still miles better compared to anything else on the market now.

Telsa would have failed horribly without the government subsidies he milked out of the US tax payers. As soon as the carbon credits went away last year his company hasn't had a profitable quarter and continues to decline. Tesla can't compete with current era EV's. The only company he is part of that is successful is SpaceX because he isn't allowed to actually manage it due to his lack of security clearance on the big ticket government contracts that make it profitable. Every other company the guy runs aren't successful on their own.

[Sedoy]

Not defending Elon or his fan boy, but wow, where do you get your info? You are wrong on everything:

1. Regulatory carbon credits still exist today, consumer tax credits ended in september.
2. Tesla Q4 2024 net income $2.13B vs Q4 2025 (after tax credit ended) net income $0.84B - less, but still profitable.
3. Tesla can't compete with current era EV? Model Y and Model 3 are the best-selling EVs on the market, nearly half of all EVs sold in the U.S. are either a Model Y or a Model 3. Unless cheap Chinese EVs are allowed in the US, this is not going to change much. Even in China, the world's most advanced EV market, Tesla has a pretty good market share.
4. Musk is actively involved in managing SpaceX in engineering and strategic direction, he was never removed from that.
5. Musk does have a security clearance, in fact he currently holds a federal "Top Secret" clearance. Moreover, SpaceX achieved its foundational successes with rocket reusability beating Russian prices and secured billions of dollars in contracts years before they ever launched a classified payloads requiring national security clearances.

I feel like I've been hearing that Tesla is going out of business for the last 10 years, but whatever you can believe in anything you want.

Originally Posted by kudos

Telsa would have failed horribly without the government subsidies he milked out of the US tax payers. As soon as the carbon credits went away last year his company hasn't had a profitable quarter and continues to decline. Tesla can't compete with current era EV's. The only company he is part of that is successful is SpaceX because he isn't allowed to actually manage it due to his lack of security clearance on the big ticket government contracts that make it profitable. Every other company the guy runs aren't successful on their own.

[Phillies8008]

Gwynne Shotwell runs SpaceX, not Musk. He doesn't really have much to do with it other than Twitter posts. SpaceX is successful in spite of him, not because of him.

Tesla's stock price is a complete house of cards, and it's going to be ugly once the music finally stops. Unless someone actually believes that the company is seriously more valuable than the entire rest of the car industry combined. But I'd seriously question the competency of anyone who does. It's completely built on hype and hope.

[kudos]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

Not defending Elon or his fan boy, but wow, where do you get your info? You are wrong on everything:

1. Regulatory carbon credits still exist today, consumer tax credits ended in september.
2. Tesla Q4 2024 net income $2.13B vs Q4 2025 (after tax credit ended) net income $0.84B - less, but still profitable.
3. Tesla can't compete with current era EV? Model Y and Model 3 are the best-selling EVs on the market, nearly half of all EVs sold in the U.S. are either a Model Y or a Model 3. Unless cheap Chinese EVs are allowed in the US, this is not going to change much. Even in China, the world's most advanced EV market, Tesla has a pretty good market share.
4. Musk is actively involved in managing SpaceX in engineering and strategic direction, he was never removed from that.
5. Musk does have a security clearance, in fact he currently holds a federal "Top Secret" clearance. Moreover, SpaceX achieved its foundational successes with rocket reusability beating Russian prices and secured billions of dollars in contracts years before they ever launched a classified payloads requiring national security clearances.

I feel like I've been hearing that Tesla is going out of business for the last 10 years, but whatever you can believe in anything you want.

I'm not going to bother going back and forth with someone who doesn't actually know what they're talking about and I stopped after you said he has the clearance requirements (he doesn't).


Why Musk Doesn’t Have Access to SpaceX’s Biggest Government Secrets
Executives haven’t sought higher security clearance for the CEO to avoid questions about his drug use and contact with foreign officials; the answers might no longer matter
https://www.wsj.com/tech/musk-spacex...-NCmVmkQ%3D%3D

[kudos]

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

Gwynne Shotwell runs SpaceX, not Musk. He doesn't really have much to do with it other than Twitter posts. SpaceX is successful in spite of him, not because of him.

Tesla's stock price is a complete house of cards, and it's going to be ugly once the music finally stops. Unless someone actually believes that the company is seriously more valuable than the entire rest of the car industry combined. But I'd seriously question the competency of anyone who does. It's completely built on hype and hope.

The Tesla morons now just say it's not a car company its a robotics company! Even though there are many robotics companies much further along with less funding and Tesla robots have been proven to be controlled remotely by people.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

Kinda like fully autonomous self-driving that was coming in 2017, and ever subsequent year thereafter? Or how about the $40,000 Cybertruck that has never, and will never appear? Or maybe the 1,000,000 Robotaxis that would be on the road by the end of 2020? Or the Roadster launching in 2020? Or humans on Mars by 2024? Oh, I know: The Boring Company doing anything of use at all?

So who has "derangement syndrome"? If Musk "promises" it there's about a 95% chance it's total bullshit. Yet the suckers keep breathlessly swallowing it, hook, line, and sinker.

The problem is people have lost the ability to understand nuance. Either Elon is the devil and an idiot or Elon is an alien god genius.

No. He's a weird guy who talks a lot of shit but has also delivered on some of his shit even if it was late and over budget.

He's the richest guy in the world, I'm sorry but I'm not sure it's even possible to be the richest man in the world and be normal. The guy is super weird, he looks weird, he talks weird, he has a bunch of weird kids with a bunch of random women.

He also made the best selling car in the world since 2023. I'm sorry if that doesn't align with the Tesla sucks narrative, but that's a fact. So that's at least one product that isn't snake oil.

Then you have SpaceX. They created the first reusable rocket that's working at scale. I mean they literally launch like over 90% of everything that goes into orbit in the US. Snake oil?

Starlink the largest modern satellite internet constellation. You can go to the website and signup, get your dish and get internet in the middle of bfe. Also snake oil?

I don't have to personally like the guy to be able to see what he has objectively achieved. I'll take an overpriced, underpowered cybertruck and FSD that's been a decade in the making in exchange for all the other things I listed above.

[Phillies8008]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

The problem is people have lost the ability to understand nuance. Either Elon is the devil and an idiot or Elon is an alien god genius.

No. He's a weird guy who talks a lot of shit but has also delivered on some of his shit even if it was late and over budget.

He's the richest guy in the world, I'm sorry but I'm not sure it's even possible to be the richest man in the world and be normal. The guy is super weird, he looks weird, he talks weird, he has a bunch of weird kids with a bunch of random women.

He also made the best selling car in the world since 2023. I'm sorry if that doesn't align with the Tesla sucks narrative, but that's a fact. So that's at least one product that isn't snake oil.

Then you have SpaceX. They created the first reusable rocket that's working at scale. I mean they literally launch like over 90% of everything that goes into orbit in the US. Snake oil?

Starlink the largest modern satellite internet constellation. You can go to the website and signup, get your dish and get internet in the middle of bfe. Also snake oil?

I don't have to personally like the guy to be able to see what he has objectively achieved. I'll take an overpriced, underpowered cybertruck and FSD that's been a decade in the making in exchange for all the other things I listed above.

1. I don't disagree with your point about Musk. No one is wholly good nor wholly evil, but I tend to think Elon falls more towards the "evil" side of the pendulum than not, and has demonstrated so repeatedly. YMMV.

2. I never said any of those particular things were "snake oil". The snake oil he sells is his wild promises and under- or un-delivered products.

3. Tesla does indeed sell a lot of cars, but I'm not sure that it follows that that makes them good cars. After all, McDonald's sells a shit ton of hamburgers, but is anyone arguing that they're actually good? As far as snake oil goes FSD is absolutely fits the bill. More than a decade after its release it still doesn't perform as promised and for a long time was lauded as one of the big reasons to buy a Tesla. Sure, it does something, but not what it was promised to do.

4. Yep, SpaceX is pretty great, but from everything I read he has precious little to do with it. But sure, he gets at least some credit.

You're right, I don't like the guy in the least, but I feel that I am objective. His companies have done some significant good, but then again he's actively doing a lot of significantly bad things that are causing far greater long-term harm to society that outweighs those good things, IMO. But you're certainly welcome to your opinion.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

1. I don't disagree with your point about Musk. No one is wholly good nor wholly evil, but I tend to think Elon falls more towards the "evil" side of the pendulum than not, and has demonstrated so repeatedly. YMMV.

Leaving politics out of it (because that's 99% subjective IMO plus not allowed here) what objectively evil things has he done?

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

2. I never said any of those particular things were "snake oil". The snake oil he sells is his wild promises and under- or un-delivered products.

I don't know if it was you specifically but plenty of mentions of him being a snake-oil salesman in here. I don't know how you all define a snake-oil salesman but to me it's someone who is intentionally selling something that doesn't work and will never work. Over promising and under delivering is just shitty business.

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

3. Tesla does indeed sell a lot of cars, but I'm not sure that it follows that that makes them good cars. After all, McDonald's sells a shit ton of hamburgers, but is anyone arguing that they're actually good? As far as snake oil goes FSD is absolutely fits the bill. More than a decade after its release it still doesn't perform as promised and for a long time was lauded as one of the big reasons to buy a Tesla. Sure, it does something, but not what it was promised to do.

That's subjective, plenty of people disagree with you and the sales show that. Using that logic I could argue anything other than a Bugatti Veyron shouldn't even be considered roadworthy.

As for FSD this is one of the things I would agree with you is the closest to snake-oil. My main issue is not with FSD itself but with the marketing and pricing of it. That being said when a snake-oil salesman sells you some blue tinted water and tells you it's going to make your pee pee 5x larger.... it's not going to do ANYTHING... because it's water. While FSD has been a decade in the making, my Tesla can 100% drive itself, you can argue how well all you like but it does drive itself fairly well a decade later and multiple hardware revisions later. A decade later the blue water would have just given you smurf dick.

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

4. Yep, SpaceX is pretty great, but from everything I read he has precious little to do with it. But sure, he gets at least some credit.

That's how being the CEO of multiple giant companies works. He's not personally building rockets or EVs. You can't only attribute to him the stuff you don't like. However I'll give you some credit for giving him some credit.

Originally Posted by Phillies8008

You're right, I don't like the guy in the least, but I feel that I am objective. His companies have done some significant good, but then again he's actively doing a lot of significantly bad things that are causing far greater long-term harm to society that outweighs those good things, IMO. But you're certainly welcome to your opinion.

This goes back to point #1, however I'm going to go out on a limb and say most of your issues with him are political, which is fine because you're also welcome to your opinion, what you can't do however is change the facts which is what I was trying to highlight.