anybody miss manual, move back but then miss DCT?

[Efthreeoh]

No. Why in the world would anyone give up a manual transmission. Eeek!

[BeefyBeefo]

I have a weird path have had a bunch of cars. My last few were an auto 71 Camaro, muncie 4spd 70 Chevelle (SUPER heavy clutch), muncie 4spd 67 Camaro, C8 (DCT obviously) and now a 6MT G80 on order. The DCT in the C8 is pretty awesome but I get bored. Plus, I wanted a sedan so I could get my toy car out more, hence the G80. Everytime I get an auto I end up missing the manual, but again it's not a daily driver for me. If C8 was available with a manual from the factory, that's what I'd have right now instead of the DCT.

[baege]

still no post about missing DCT after a move to manual...

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by afadeev

I've been disappointed with BMW 6MTs - BMW had stopped investing into manuals decades ago, and legacy 6-speed is sloppy, outdated, and performance degrading.

What? Decades ago? Nah.

I've owned and driven manual BMWs for 45+ years, from a 1978 E21 to 2008 E86. Both Getrag and ZF manual transmissions, 4-speeds to 6-speeds. I still have a 1997 Z3 and a 2008 Z4 Coupe. So that's decades. They all shift the same. Regardless if you like how BMWs shift or not, my experience is entirely different than what you have stated.

[ZTK_M240i]

Nothing beats driving a manual car. Using the shifter and clutch just adds to the driving experience.

I always keep at least one manual car in my garage at all times...

[Bumpinjeep]

First time I've heard a DCT was maybe in a F430? Then, the 997 GT3. Sounded so awesome with those quick upshifts. But at the end of the day, it's a car where the software in the transmission is telling the hardware to change gears for you. And it just doesn't replace actually driving your car. The DCT in my GTI is great and it's fun slapping the paddle and pretending I'm an F1 driver once in a while when we go to Target, but I never actually want to drive it when my manual G87 is sitting there next to it. I think that's the main difference, one is fun while the other is simulated fun, after a while the novelty of a quick shifting automatic wears off and you simply have a quick shifting automatic.

[XutvJet]

I'd figure out a way to keep the auto R8 and buy a cheaper ($30Kish) and slower manual car, make it your own, have fun with it, and manage that manual itch. Speed isn't everything and any late model car with a manual is going to be slower or A LOT slower if you're talking turbo cars.

I had a 6MT M235 with Stage 2 mods for nearly 8 years. My biggest issue with that car was the 6MT shift feel and most everything about the clutch (except that it could apparently take abuse). I did a few mods to make it better but it was still very clear to me that BMW half-asses the 6MT experience for whatever reason. I love the 2 series chassis so I went with the obvious upgrade, a 2018 M2 DCT. That car is as quick in stock form as my Stage 2 M235 6MT was. That is just how efficient the DCT is. Way better gearing and no boost loss on shifts. The DCT is far better matched to the chassis and motor.

Then there's my 2011 Cayman 6MT base model. It is far slower than the M2/M235 but even more fun to drive and sounds epic with the exhaust mods. The 6MT is light years better than the BMW 6MT in every measurable way. I could have bought a more expensive and faster Porsche, but I wanted something that I could drive hard on the street that was engaging, visceral, felt and sounded fast (though it's not), and not feel bad about doing any mod I wanted without hurting resale.

I've got about $40K into my Cayman including the car, mods, and repairs/maintenance and I'll never part with that car. Driving it is an event every time, and I drive it 50% of the time.

I'll always have a manual in my stable, but I also love a well sorted automatic too. Whether it's a ZF8AT or a DCT. Porsche does make the best DCT, but I would never consider a Porsche with a PDK (or any turbo Porsche for that matter). 6MT is a must in those cars.

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by baege

still no post about missing DCT after a move to manual...

well, PDK is just a better version of DCT and I was still bored within a month and went back to manual and never missed it one bit....as I posted earlier in this thread.

[vt100]

Originally Posted by ZTK_M240i

Nothing beats driving a manual car. Using the shifter and clutch just adds to the driving experience.

I always keep at least one manual car in my garage at all times...

Manual also keeps you awake and aware
It's so easy to fall asleep with automatic, not so much with manual.

[vt100]

Originally Posted by Socal_R8

well, PDK is just a better version of DCT and I was still bored within a month and went back to manual and never missed it one bit....as I posted earlier in this thread.

Same here, I was excited for a couple of weeks driving my wife's PDK Spyder. This car is prob a pinnacle of precision and shifts are insanely fast.
But the more I drove it the more I was finding myself trying to push (a non existent clutch) or reaching for the shifter. And somehow I still prefer my slow manual CR-Z and sometimes the Z4M

So no, not missing PDK/DCT not a single bit

[Rocket455]

I'm too old (and twice as lazy) to drive a manual as my daily any longer, but I didn't want to completely give up on manuals, which is why I made sure my '72 Trans Am had a Muncie M-22.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by vt100

Same here, I was excited for a couple of weeks driving my wife's PDK Spyder. This car is prob a pinnacle of precision and shifts are insanely fast.
But the more I drove it the more I was finding myself trying to push (a non existent clutch) or reaching for the shifter. And somehow I still prefer my slow manual CR-Z and sometimes the Z4M

So no, not missing PDK/DCT not a single bit

I feel the same. DCTs are cool and amazing for what they are. But they lurch when at a stop and shift less smoothly than automatics. Have you ever tried to go forward only 1 or 2 inches in a DCT...almost impossible without significant jerking! If I want a non-auto trans experience, the manuals do a better job of that.

If I want a smooth automatic, the ZFs do a better job. When daily driving, who cares if the the ZF shifts 1/10th of a second slower?! And way easier to go 1-2 inches forward in manual or auto trans.

[vt100]

Originally Posted by thebmw

I feel the same. DCTs are cool and amazing for what they are. But they lurch when at a stop and shift less smoothly than automatics. Have you ever tried to go forward only 1 or 2 inches in a DCT...almost impossible without significant jerking! If I want a non-auto trans experience, the manuals do a better job of that.

If I want a smooth automatic, the ZFs do a better job. When daily driving, who cares if the the ZF shifts 1/10th of a second slower?! And way easier to go 1-2 inches forward in manual or auto trans.

Yeah, very true! Little movements are much harder to do with PDK/DCT than even with manual.
And I actually hate driving PDK in bumper-2-bumper traffic just because of that. It's much more stressful driving the PDK Spyder in traffic than even Z4M (which has prob the hardest manual I've ever driven).

PS: And that's not even mentioning how much wear traffic jams put on dual-clutches.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by thebmw

I feel the same. DCTs are cool and amazing for what they are. But they lurch when at a stop and shift less smoothly than automatics. Have you ever tried to go forward only 1 or 2 inches in a DCT...almost impossible without significant jerking!

In the M-DCT you just tap the pedal once and it goes into crawl mode.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by thebmw

Since you have been pondering and ruminating about a manual for months, you have to get a manual to get it out of your system. There will be no amount of justification for a non-manual that will overcome your itch. They will be no validation by some random person on the internet that will quell your desire. There's nothing wrong with manuals as daily drivers.

You're not trying to buy the fastest car. Who cares if 0-60 is one second slower in the manual? Do you really want the woman who finishes you one second faster or who gives you the best experience?

You know you want it so just do it before your bones don't allow you to press the clutch pedal!

So just to dispel this idea one gets to old and their bones don't allow operation of a clutch pedal, it will never happen.

If your bones are at the point you can't operate a clutch pedal then you most likely can't walk without severe pain and need some type or level of surgery to fix the problem. If anyone says they can't drive a manual because they are too old, it's just a lame excuse.

[baege]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

So just to dispel this idea one gets to old and their bones don't allow operation of a clutch pedal, it will never happen.

With my well but misspent youth, between football injuries and numerous dirt bike mishaps, I had the most fucked up knees of anyone this side of Lindsay Vaughn. Three orthoscopic surgeries between the ages of 20 and 35, I drove a manual car and truck the entire time. Finally at age 50, I had my left knee replaced and was back driving two weeks after surgery in my manual E90 800 miles a week; the ortho doc said it was the best rehab I could get. At age 52, I had my right knee replaced, again back driving the E90. That was well over a decade ago.

If your bones are at the point you can't operate a clutch pedal then you most likely can't walk without severe pain, and need some type or level of surgery to fix the problem. That was my case, I was taking 1600 mg of Advil per day just so I could walk without excruciating pain, driving a manual was the least painful activity in my life.

If anyone says they can't drive a manual because they are too old, it's just a lame excuse.

its not that I cant physically drive manual as I get older, I just find myself getting lazier and want something easy

the fact that I preferred the light easy manual in the M2C over the 6MT in the GTS 4.0 is a prime example, the GTS 4.0 manual was more engaging and mechanical but also more work and effort!

[zx10guy]

My 2013 135i has a DCT. At first, I thought this is something I can live with as I wanted a 6 speed manual. When I bought this car, it was at the tail end of what ever inventory was left due to the 2 series. Within a few months, I was chasing problems with the DCT where the engine would shudder and want to stall when I came to a stop with the A/C on. Then there were the drivability issues; especially in stop and go traffic. There were times when I hit the gas and nothing. The trans wouldn't engage and then it would after a couple of seconds. You can imagine the fear I would have when there was an opening in traffic to change lanes and then there wasn't with a car literally on top of me. Then there were the lurching/jumping issues. I would bring the car to a stop and before the car ws completely stopped, the car literally wanted to jump forward. Thankfully I had my foot on the brake to apply more pressure to prevent the car from rear ending the car in front of me.

I went through all sorts of possible fixes from the software update, to the PPK tune, to the Dinan S2 tune. The post I made with the final solution was a made a sticky here on Bimmerpost. The ultimate fix was to have all the adaptations reset. I had to do another adaptations reset since having the initial one done to correct the behaviors I mentioned above that was starting to creep back.

DCTs are nice and cool but my experience makes me only consider it in a car that is only a weekend warrior.

As to wanting to go back to a DCT after getting back into a manual, I can say I didn't miss the DCT in my 135i at all when I had a chance to drive a manual car again. It was an ex girlfriends BRZ. It was so nice to be throwing gears with a manual again. If I ever replace my garage queen 135i, I would be make having the replacement a 6MT.

[D_SheerDrivingPleasure]

Originally Posted by vt100

Manual also keeps you awake and aware
It's so easy to fall asleep with automatic, not so much with manual.

Exactly. Your comment reminded me a kid back in my high school that could roll a tight joint while driving his 5 speed Ford Probe. This was when a dime bag cost a dime.

[Brandoch]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

My 2013 135i has a DCT. At first, I thought this is something I can live with as I wanted a 6 speed manual. When I bought this car, it was at the tail end of what ever inventory was left due to the 2 series. Within a few months, I was chasing problems with the DCT where the engine would shudder and want to stall when I came to a stop with the A/C on. Then there were the drivability issues; especially in stop and go traffic. There were times when I hit the gas and nothing. The trans wouldn't engage and then it would after a couple of seconds. You can imagine the fear I would have when there was an opening in traffic to change lanes and then there wasn't with a car literally on top of me. Then there were the lurching/jumping issues. I would bring the car to a stop and before the car ws completely stopped, the car literally wanted to jump forward. Thankfully I had my foot on the brake to apply more pressure to prevent the car from rear ending the car in front of me.

I went through all sorts of possible fixes from the software update, to the PPK tune, to the Dinan S2 tune. The post I made with the final solution was a made a sticky here on Bimmerpost. The ultimate fix was to have all the adaptations reset. I had to do another adaptations reset since having the initial one done to correct the behaviors I mentioned above that was starting to creep back.

DCTs are nice and cool but my experience makes me only consider it in a car that is only a weekend warrior.

As to wanting to go back to a DCT after getting back into a manual, I can say I didn't miss the DCT [...]

From what I have read, the DCT programing in the M cars vs the non M cars are night and day. I have an E93 M3 with DCT and I love it, but I have seen countless of posts from the 135s and 335s saying that they don't like it.

[vt100]

Originally Posted by Brandoch

From what I have read, the DCT programing in the M cars vs the non M cars are night and day. I have an E93 M3 with DCT and I love it, but I have seen countless of posts from the 135s and 335s saying that they don't like it.

Nah... It's not firmware tuning. It's just the fact that you don't work with the car as much as when driving the same car with manual

PS: Porsche's got event better PDK tuning than any of BMWs.. and yet it doesn't make it more enjoyable comparing to manual

[DanG]

Hmm. I switch to DCT from over 50 years of a manual. Never missed the manual in Seattle traffic. The DCT was also great on the track. Even a friend who is a track instructor changed from manual to DCT. DCTs are faster and get better mileage and are much more a joy to drive in stop and go traffic than a manual.

Too bad that BMW doesn’t sell DCT cars anymore. I definately prefer a DCT over a ZF8.

[baege]

Originally Posted by vt100

Nah... It's not firmware tuning. It's just the fact that you don't work with the car as much as when driving the same car with manual

PS: Porsche's got event better PDK tuning than any of BMWs.. and yet it doesn't make it more enjoyable comparing to manual

I get your point, but not all DCTs are created equal
some are much more direct and visceral


still not one post though from someone who wanted to go back to DCT in a weekend car

I guess that does say something