MHD Stage 2 E85 OTS

[icyf82]

Hello, kind gentlemen.

Has anyone ran the Stage 2 E85 OTS map on stock fuel system ?

My car is catless dp & titanium chargepipes .. currently on the 93 map !

I live in TX so there is E everywhere ! I reached out to PureBoost to see if it’s ok to run the E85 map on the stock fuel system & they said yes!! But I’m a little scared 😵*💫

Just wanted to get some input from the experts before I blow my car up 😰

Thnx!!!!

[powerdbygarrett]

I run e85 on stock fuel system. I do have a MHD can analyzer.

[icyf82]

Originally Posted by powerdbygarrett

I run e85 on stock fuel system. I do have a MHD can analyzer.

Thank you for your answer, kind sir.

How’s ur car running and how long have u been on it ?

I am considering getting the MHD flex fuel kit just so I know the exact E content !

Also, are u on a custom e85 tune or the stage 2 e85 OTS?

[nick_xd]

I'm thinking about doing the same. I've done a bit of research on the forum and the main recurring issue is your injectors can get stuck open when running E85.

It's not clear what causes it, some people think that the ethanol dislodges gunk built up in the fueling system and fouls up the injectors. If you're planning on going with flex fuel they say you should get the more expensive Bend Calibration kit with the extra fuel filter. Others say its not necessary and not to worry about it. Another theory is running an aggressive tune at 6.5k+ rpm pushes the injectors too close to their limit, so they get stuck open. Some think you need to fill up the tank with regular gas every 4-5 fillups to help keep them lubricated. Or maybe injectors failing is rare and nothing needs to be done.

I found this thread on E85 in which Bend Calibration suggests cleaning your injectors yearly! And other people suggesting getting more frequent oil changes (every 3k miles!) And suggestions that you shouldn't leave your car parked for more than a week! on a tank of E85. I'm trying to figure out how necessary all of this advice is. https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1758624

Most of the threads I've found are a year+ old at this point so hopefully we can get some more recent experience in here.

[icyf82]

Originally Posted by nick_xd

I'm thinking about doing the same. I've done a bit of research on the forum and the main recurring issue is your injectors can get stuck open when running E85.

It's not clear what causes it, some people think that the ethanol dislodges gunk built up in the fueling system and fouls up the injectors. If you're planning on going with flex fuel they say you should get the more expensive Bend Calibration kit with the extra fuel filter. Others say its not necessary and not to worry about it. Another theory is running an aggressive tune at 6.5k+ rpm pushes the injectors too close to their limit, so they get stuck open. Some think you need to fill up the tank with regular gas every 4-5 fillups to help keep them lubricated. Or maybe injectors failing is rare and nothing needs to be done.

I found this thread on E85 in which Bend Calibration suggests cleaning your injectors yearly! And other people suggesting getting more frequent oil changes (every 3k miles!) And suggestions that you shouldn't leave your car parked for more than a week! on a tank of E85. I'm trying to figure out how necessary all of this advice is. https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1758624

Most of the threads I've found are a year+ old at this point so hopefully we can get some more recent experience in here.

Very insightful! Thank u good sir ! I think I’ll just wait til I get port injection to run full E. For now it’ll just have to be a lil e30 blend 😏🤟🏻

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by nick_xd

I'm thinking about doing the same. I've done a bit of research on the forum and the main recurring issue is your injectors can get stuck open when running E85.

It's not clear what causes it, some people think that the ethanol dislodges gunk built up in the fueling system and fouls up the injectors. If you're planning on going with flex fuel they say you should get the more expensive Bend Calibration kit with the extra fuel filter. Others say its not necessary and not to worry about it. Another theory is running an aggressive tune at 6.5k+ rpm pushes the injectors too close to their limit, so they get stuck open. Some think you need to fill up the tank with regular gas every 4-5 fillups to help keep them lubricated. Or maybe injectors failing is rare and nothing needs to be done.

I found this thread on E85 in which Bend Calibration suggests cleaning your injectors yearly! And other people suggesting getting more frequent oil changes (every 3k miles!) And suggestions that you shouldn't leave your car parked for more than a week! on a tank of E85. I'm trying to figure out how necessary all of this advice is. https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1758624

Most of the threads I've found are a year+ old at this point so hopefully we can get some more recent experience in here.

Injector problems can be more than one issue, but they're not overly common. There's these two things:

1) Kratos confirmed this with Bosch engineers… When running HPFP pressure above normal pressures (>3600?) the gate inside can break. This causes a "stuck injector" that does not fix if cleaned, it keeps leaking. In this case you're over fueling a cylinder and the car bogs/chugs, white smoke, stinky tailpipes… This problem is the one where people run Top Lube (Power Plus grape?) to try and prevent the issue, but lube doesn't help. If an injector is gonna break it's usually found out early in E85 tuning when fueling is worked out.

2) A dirty or clogged injector can come from debris or gunk/slime. Some crap fuel has an additive that doesn't mix with E right (you gotta search for the thread). Also, E left in the tank unused long term will absorb moisture. This might be where the "gas every three tanks/months" comes from. Yes, a fuel filter can help catch the gunk or debris upstream from your engine.

And there may be more issues I've missed or forgotten. I hope above helps de-stress.

I installed M5 injectors to supply more fuel at standard pressures, and a filter came with my LPFP kit so it got installed too.

[nick_xd]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

Injector problems can be more than one issue, but they're not overly common. There's these two things:

1) Kratos confirmed this with Bosch engineers… When running HPFP pressure above normal pressures (>3600?) the gate inside can break. This causes a "stuck injector" that does not fix if cleaned, it keeps leaking. In this case you're over fueling a cylinder and the car bogs/chugs, white smoke, stinky tailpipes… This problem is the one where people run Top Lube (Power Plus grape?) to try and prevent the issue, but lube doesn't help. If an injector is gonna break it's usually found out early in E85 tuning when fueling is worked out.

2) A dirty or clogged injector can come from debris or gunk/slime. Some crap fuel has an additive that doesn't mix with E right (you gotta search for the thread). Also, E left in the tank unused long term will absorb moisture. This might be where the "gas every three tanks/months" comes from. Yes, a fuel filter can help catch the gunk or debris upstream from your engine.

And there may be more issues I've missed or forgotten. I hope above helps de-stress.

I installed M5 injectors to supply more fuel at standard pressures, and a filter came with my LPFP kit so it got installed too.

Cool thanks that's helpful. What LPFP kit did you get installed?

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by nick_xd

Cool thanks that's helpful. What LPFP kit did you get installed?

I purchased a used Fuel-It Stg4 kit from a buddy here, and my mechanic buddy made me new custom fuel lines to go with their dual inlet filter and pressure regulator. We trigger the LPFP off the Motiv Reflex+ based on boost PSI and RPM.

[stoes]

I also live in texas and just went from bm3 flex tune on e65 to Paul johnson custom flex tune at full e85. The only parts needed for me were the ngk flex spark plugs gapped at .020 and the bm3 flex sensor and catless dps and charge pipes, the car runs amazing.
If you do go flex I highly highly recommend a custom tune. I can't say this enough. If your gonna do it, do it right the first time.
But to answer your question, yes it can easily be done with just a flex sensor on the lpfp , spark plugs and a tune..
I tried doing it the cheap way, ots tune, stock plugs, stock dps.. lol it worked but I would t recommend it! Just get ahold of a tuner and tel them what you want to do and listen to their advice. I just finished my custom tune last week and took off a full second from my ots e65 tune to my full e85 tune on my 60-130 times! Not too mention the car runs like butter! So smooth , drives like stock or how stock should be at 40% throttle. But when you floor it, you unleash the beast from within and everything you thought you knew about your car before goes out the window! I'm having to relearn how to drive it still, but it's simply amazing. Especially in this Houston heat, I can't believe not only how fast it is but absolutely no issues with heat soak or anything temp involved. These cars on ethanol are a completely different animal and it still blows my mind all that's needed it a $600 sensor …. I've had my sensor since March , changed plugs in may , changed dps in July and cus tune finally in august. My car is night and day from March. And I won't ever say what my draggy times where in March on e50 compared to now lol it's pathetic!

[nick_xd]

Originally Posted by stoes

I also live in texas and just went from bm3 flex tune on e65 to Paul johnson custom flex tune at full e85. The only parts needed for me were the ngk flex spark plugs gapped at .020 and the bm3 flex sensor and catless dps and charge pipes, the car runs amazing.
If you do go flex I highly highly recommend a custom tune. I can't say this enough. If your gonna do it, do it right the first time.
But to answer your question, yes it can easily be done with just a flex sensor on the lpfp , spark plugs and a tune..
I tried doing it the cheap way, ots tune, stock plugs, stock dps.. lol it worked but I would t recommend it! Just get ahold of a tuner and tel them what you want to do and listen to their advice. I just finished my custom tune last week and took off a full second from my ots e65 tune to my full e85 tune on my 60-130 times! Not too mention the car runs like butter! So smooth , drives like stock or how stock should be at 40% throttle. But when you floor it, you unleash the beast from within and everything you thought you knew about your car before goes out the window! I'm having to relearn how to drive it still, but it's simply amazing. Especially in this Houston heat, I can't believe not only how fast it is but absolutely no issues with heat soak or anything temp involved. These cars on ethanol are a completely different animal and it still blows my mind all that's needed it a $600 sensor …. I've had my sensor since March , changed plugs in may , changed dps in July and cus tune finally in august. My car is night and day from March. And I won't ever say what my draggy times where in March on e50 compared to now lol it's pathetic!

That's great to hear, sounds very encouraging. What was the tuning process like for you with Paul Johnson? Did you just datalog pulls and send them over? Also curious do you have an upgraded crankhub or CBC installed?

How do your new e85 dragy times compare to OTS stage 2 on 93? That's where I'm at right now...

[icyf82]

Originally Posted by stoes

I also live in texas and just went from bm3 flex tune on e65 to Paul johnson custom flex tune at full e85. The only parts needed for me were the ngk flex spark plugs gapped at .020 and the bm3 flex sensor and catless dps and charge pipes, the car runs amazing.
If you do go flex I highly highly recommend a custom tune. I can't say this enough. If your gonna do it, do it right the first time.
But to answer your question, yes it can easily be done with just a flex sensor on the lpfp , spark plugs and a tune..
I tried doing it the cheap way, ots tune, stock plugs, stock dps.. lol it worked but I would t recommend it! Just get ahold of a tuner and tel them what you want to do and listen to their advice. I just finished my custom tune last week and took off a full second from my ots e65 tune to my full e85 tune on my 60-130 times! Not too mention the car runs like butter! So smooth , drives like stock or how stock should be at 40% throttle. But when you floor it, you unleash the beast from within and everything you thought you knew about your car before goes out the window! I'm having to relearn how to drive it still, but it's simply amazing. Especially in this Houston heat, I can't believe not only how fast it is but absolutely no issues with heat soak or anything temp involved. These cars on ethanol are a completely different animal and it still blows my mind all that's needed it a $600 sensor …. I've had my sensor since March , changed plugs in may , changed dps in July and cus tune finally in august. My car is night and day from March. And I won't ever say what my draggy times where in March on e50 compared to now lol it's pathetic!

������������������ thanks for the input brotha !! Extremely helpful ��

Edit: I’m also in Houston !! But yeah bro just hang in there ! The heat here is pretty bad rn ! Everytime I push my car I feel bad for my turbos .. on another note .. boostszn is approaching ��������

[powerdbygarrett]

Originally Posted by icyf82

Thank you for your answer, kind sir.

How’s ur car running and how long have u been on it ?

I am considering getting the MHD flex fuel kit just so I know the exact E content !

Also, are u on a custom e85 tune or the stage 2 e85 OTS?

Knock on wood, car runs great. I have been on it for two weeks now. I am on a custom e85 tune. Not a fan of OTS maps.

[theweebabySeamus]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

Injector problems can be more than one issue, but they're not overly common. There's these two things:

1) Kratos confirmed this with Bosch engineers… When running HPFP pressure above normal pressures (>3600?) the gate inside can break. This causes a "stuck injector" that does not fix if cleaned, it keeps leaking. In this case you're over fueling a cylinder and the car bogs/chugs, white smoke, stinky tailpipes… This problem is the one where people run Top Lube (Power Plus grape?) to try and prevent the issue, but lube doesn't help. If an injector is gonna break it's usually found out early in E85 tuning when fueling is worked out.

2) A dirty or clogged injector can come from debris or gunk/slime. Some crap fuel has an additive that doesn't mix with E right (you gotta search for the thread). Also, E left in the tank unused long term will absorb moisture. This might be where the "gas every three tanks/months" comes from. Yes, a fuel filter can help catch the gunk or debris upstream from your engine.

And there may be more issues I've missed or forgotten. I hope above helps de-stress.

I installed M5 injectors to supply more fuel at standard pressures, and a filter came with my LPFP kit so it got installed too.

'Ive always wondered how much youd lose using an e85 map that stays within allowable range to be easy on the injector. I'm sure the BMS BEF E85 map would work, if still used, even though I'm sure on THAT map you would lose plenty since it's stock boost levels.

[Tommix]

Originally Posted by icyf82

Hello, kind gentlemen.

Has anyone ran the Stage 2 E85 OTS map on stock fuel system ?

My car is catless dp & titanium chargepipes .. currently on the 93 map !

I live in TX so there is E everywhere ! I reached out to PureBoost to see if it’s ok to run the E85 map on the stock fuel system & they said yes!! But I’m a little scared 😵*💫

Just wanted to get some input from the experts before I blow my car up 😰

Thnx!!!!

I have used the MHD E85 Stage 2+ OTS map. My car has also stock fuel system. MHD OTS maps are safe to use. As you can see from the picture below, the boost pressures really drop after 5500 rpm. With this, MHD ensures that the engine will not be damaged due to e.g. lack of fuel.


https://datazap.me/u/tommix/e85-ots-...data=4-6-24-46
I have also tried a custom map where the boost pressures are even over 20 psi even after 6500 rpm. On that map, my car's engine started to jerk after 6500 rpm.

[icyf82]

Originally Posted by Tommix

I have used the MHD E85 Stage 2+ OTS map. My car has also stock fuel system. MHD OTS maps are safe to use. As you can see from the picture below, the boost pressures really drop after 5500 rpm. With this, MHD ensures that the engine will not be damaged due to e.g. lack of fuel.


https://datazap.me/u/tommix/e85-ots-...data=4-6-24-46
I have also tried a custom map where the boost pressures are even over 20 psi even after 6500 rpm. On that map, my car's engine started to jerk after 6500 rpm.

💙💙💙💙💙 this is the answer I was looking for.

Did you have a MHD flexfuel kit and did you do your spark plugs? The E85 pumps here aren’t exactly E85 (E75-E80) but I should be fine .. right? What u think good sir ? Thank u In advance 🤟🏻

[Tommix]

Originally Posted by icyf82

💙💙💙💙💙 this is the answer I was looking for.
Did you have a MHD flexfuel kit and did you do your spark plugs? The E85 pumps here aren’t exactly E85 (E75-E80) but I should be fine .. right? What u think good sir ? Thank u In advance 🤟🏻

Glad I've been helpful. I don't have flexfuel kit, I don't see it as necessary right now because I mainly use either E85, E30 or 98 RON (US 93) maps and it's so easy to change the maps with the steering wheel buttons. But I may get it one day.
At first I used NGK 97506 spark plugs. The engine worked fine on them. Later, I updated NGK F8S flexfuel plugs. In both plugs, the gap was/is adjusted to 0.020".

According to the technical specification, the ethanol content of E85 fuel can vary between 70-85 percent by volume. In Finland, however, the ethanol content is typically between 82 and 83 percent by volume. The quality and purity of the fuel is of a very high standard. The interesting thing is that RE85 contains about 80% renewable ethanol, which is produced in Finland from domestic waste and residues.
Real eco driving

[stoes]

Originally Posted by nick_xd

That's great to hear, sounds very encouraging. What was the tuning process like for you with Paul Johnson? Did you just datalog pulls and send them over? Also curious do you have an upgraded crankhub or CBC installed?

How do your new e85 dragy times compare to OTS stage 2 on 93? That's where I'm at right now...

My tuning process with Paul and his team went great, very easy and on my schedule. I'd do a log every other day or so see song on my schedule and the weather. When you do a flex e85 tune he will send you a base map which is way better than the stage 2 multi ots map for starters , on 93 .. the base map on 93 was faster than multi flex ots map at e65! Not by much per draggy times but it was on straight 93! And it drove so much smoother , it felt like a completely different car. You do 2-3 base map logs then he will tell you to go to e30 then e50 then e70 then full e85, logging each percentage point. I am on a peak psi of 26.6 which tappers to around 21.5 at 6500 rpm. My average boost in powerband is like 24 ..
as for my draggy times it's like this
60-130
Stage 2 multi e60 ots pre spark plugs gapped at .20 and dps - in average 2500 DA 92 degrees 8.8 seconds
Stage 2 ots e60 2800 DA on different roads in 96 degrees would sometimes do 9.2-9.5
Then changed plugs and dps
Ots on e65 averaged 8.6-8.8 over many many runs. My best time prior to the custom tune was 8.55 in 72 degree weather back in March
Now on full e85 I'm at 7.62 as my fastest with an average of 7.75-7.83
However, it's still hot and I really haven't gotten a good run because I have issues with traction at 60! Lol if I floor it in 3rd around 50-60 it will spin, sometimes just a little sometimes it gets sideways . And I told Paul to keep the power and tq linear so I caiuld use it!
So I shaved off over a full second and am hitting 60-130 in like 1110ft compared to my 8.68 of 1280 ft I think.. almost 200 ft faster on custom tune with e85 compared to ots with e65 , Thsts unbelievable! And once it cools down and I get better tires I know for sure I'll be around 7.4 at least, I'm hitting 60-100 in 3.52 / 60-110 in 4.81 / 60-120 in 6.20 - I haven't run a quater under 11.97 because of traction. And I've tried probably 15 times , mostly 12.5 plus lol I have to play around with my Xhp settings and my bm3 tq settings. I even reduced tq by 45% in 1sr and 35% 2nd 10% 3rd yesterday and still couldn't get traction . My Michelins are 6 weeks old lol 295/30/20's
Car runs like a monster and all around smoother and better than ever . It's better in every single way. Definitely do it!